Fact is that Israel is gone too far with state terrorism and that this lasts too long with each day worse and worse consequences.
People all around the world are no more willing to sit and watch what gangsters from Tel Aviv are doing to innocent people and whats more important are ready to act.
That's why this happened on those ships. "IDF" "soldiers" landed on guys who had no fear but had a lot of anger and guts.
That will happen more and more often in future and all around.
There are ways how to civilize Israel.
Israel can only dream that there are not.
If Israel could intercept international ships in international waters we could can close ports all around the world for their ships and airports for their planes too.
Israel is confronting himself with whole world underestimating him.
Will see what will happen when whole world confronts with Israel without underestimating him.
Especially when U.S will had to make decision: Civilized Israel or Europa ?
Jun 4, 2010 4:23 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
emannigolJossakin Pirkanmaalla, Southern Finland Finland356 Posts
emannigolJossakin Pirkanmaalla, Southern Finland Finland356 posts
Albertaghost: I'm simply exposing your one dimensional thinking
I was thinking your thinking one dimensional.
Anyway, I can't see IDF restrained enough to be praised: no matter what Hamas is doing. Ever growing Israeli settlements aren't helping situation either. What kind of "defence force" is occupying foreign land and making military campaigns to foreign ground anyway: shouldn't it be called army? I think there are many things which should be questioned in Israeli politics. It should be possible to criticize acts against civilians without labels of anti semite or pro Hamas. Only extremists want to label everything pro or against (false dilemma) and don't want questions to be asked.
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada5,914 posts
emannigol: I was thinking your thinking one dimensional.
Doubt it. R3ead the rest of your post, very biased and one dimensional. At the end, I will show what the other side is doing and then after that, a start of a solution providing one not boxed into one dimensional thinking.
emannigol: Anyway, I can't see IDF restrained enough to be praised: no matter what Hamas is doing.
What kind of "defence force" is occupying foreign land and making military campaigns to foreign ground anyway: shouldn't it be called army?
I think there are many things which should be questioned in Israeli politics.
There we go, no mention of terrorist activities designed purely to goad reaction by Israel. No mention of the climate of hate in Gaza. No mention of goods and services being directed away from the people and to Al Qassam. No mention of the lack of any willingness to live with Israel or, even negotiate.
Now, in order to progress, you have to take both sides into account and see the entire field. The key factors are greed and power, trust, violence, land and time. All can be overcome providing there is a dialogue of cooperation rather than flat out blame.
Right now, they do not delieberately kill civilians as a mattrer of governmental policy.
??????
Rachel Corrie, a young American peace activist who was crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer in 2003 while trying to prevent the army from demolishing a Palestinian home in Gaza......
Alberta G. The main error , again, is that you refuse to recognize the essential flaw of ALL your remarks..... Israeli troops attacked a fleet of ships in international waters
AND KILLED PEOPLE. K I L L E D P E O P L E.
This is more commonly know as MURDER. M U R D E R.
oh i think Ive got him sussed now.......he speaks as if hes offering a balanced view...but the bottom line is that all his contributions have the same flavour....pro-israeli and anti-palestinian.
Nothing new there. Its sickening to see how much double-speak is out there. Try looking up anthing to do with this conflict and what you'll find is a list of websites, which in name appear to be palestinian or pro-peace in origin......but are actually pro-israel propoganda.
of course, all sides use spin...but the most sickening for me, as the ship, Rachel Corrie, sails towards a dangerous confrontation, is the outrageous attacks on Rachel Corrie and her family.
The worst is an article entitled "The (self)deceit of Rachel Corrie.
Its almost beyond belief that someone could sit down and write such evil ...and what it suggest to me is that only a guilty mindset could go to such extremes.
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada5,914 posts
SilverBirch: Alberta G. The main error , again, is that you refuse to recognize the essential flaw of ALL your remarks..... Israeli troops attacked a fleet of ships in international waters
AND KILLED PEOPLE. K I L L E D P E O P L E.
This is more commonly know as MURDER. M U R D E R.
STUDY THESE PHRASES,....
What you YOU Fail F A I L to understand U N D E R S T A ND is that there was a blockade in place and, to attempt to break that blockade is an act of war W A R.
Israel would have been perfectly within their rights to blow the ships out of the water W A T E R
Now, listen carefully Siverbirch - STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE AND UNDERSTAND THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE NO HUMANITARIANS BUT RATHER INTENT ON BREAKING A BLOCKADE. AN ACT OF WAR.
Protect the MV Rachel Corrie, Investigate the Israeli Attack on the Mavi Marmara
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 4, 2010
In the past four days, details about the attack on the Gaza-bound Freedom Flotilla have emerged.
We now know that 9 civilians were killed in the attack – 8 Turkish nationals and 1 American citizen of Turkish descent. We extend our deepest condolences to the families of those killed. From the depths of our own experience, we feel the pain you are in.
In a response to the incident, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) called for “a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards.”
We are dismayed that, largely due to US influence, the call was not for an independent investigation. With the cases of our daughter Rachel Corrie, crushed by an IDF Caterpillar bulldozer in the Gaza Strip in 2003, and US citizens Brian Avery and Tristan Anderson, both severely injured by the IDF in the West Bank in 2003 and 2009, respectively, Israel clearly demonstrated a failure to investigate itself adequately.
Additionally, the aftermath of Operation Cast Lead, in whichthe Israeli military exonerated itself of any wrongdoing, appears to confirm our own experience.
We call on the United Nations Security Council, and particularly on the United States Government, to demand a credible, transparent, thorough independent investigation into the attack on the flotilla.
At this time, a ship named the MV Rachel Corrie, which departed from Ireland, is on its way to Gaza. It was supposed to sail with the rest of the flotilla but was delayed due to mechanical difficulties. There are 12 people are on board, including the Nobel Peace Prize winner, Mairead Maguire and former UN Assistant Secretary-General Dennis Halliday. We call on the United States Government and the governments of the world to insist that Israel not block the safe passage of the ship in reaching Gaza, nor take any actions that may result in the harm of the civilians onboard.
We are also dismayed that the United States Government has not joined the other permanent members of the UNSC in calling for an end to the blockade of Gaza. We call on our government to stand up against the immoral and illegal siege.
Until the blockade, siege and the occupation have ended, and people are permitted to live in freedom and with dignity, we fear there will be more needless deaths, of Palestinians and Israelis alike, and internationals who stand in solidarity with those working towards an end to the occupation and peace with justice.
Albertaghost: What you YOU Fail F A I L to understand U N D E R S T A N D is that there was a blockade in place and, to attempt to break that blockade is an act of war W A R. Israel would have been perfectly within their rights to blow the ships out of the water W A T E R
Now, listen carefully Siverbirch - STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE AND UNDERSTAND THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE NO HUMANITARIANS BUT RATHER INTENT ON BREAKING A BLOCKADE. AN ACT OF WAR.
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada5,914 posts
sharmini: Right now, they do not delieberately kill civilians as a mattrer of governmental policy.
??????
Rachel Corrie, a young American peace activist who was crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer in 2003 while trying to prevent the army from demolishing a Palestinian home in Gaza......
You think the steel plate is transparent? Golly, no wonder you guys see everything upside down, hell, even Hamas isn't stupid enough to pull the idiocy she did. Do the math;
Field of battle, a sixty ton steel plated armored bulldozer with a guy perched high in the air with blind spots a semi driver would get a nightmare from and she wanders around in front of the six foot high blade in an area full of debris and trips.
It might be called 'thinning the herd' in some circles and, if she were part of a work force construction outfit she would be fired for being a total moron but murder on the part of the driver?
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada5,914 posts
sharmini: oh i think Ive got him sussed now.......he speaks as if hes offering a balanced view...but the bottom line is that all his contributions have the same flavour....pro-israeli and anti-palestinian.
Actually, it is balanced however, I do appoligise for being pro Israel on one occasion - when I said they had hot women, good guns and great booze. Other than that, I am merely explaining why your ranting and over the top hubris is shallow and worthless. I would do the same for any one sided bogus attack on an individual that was based on hatred and idiocy such as this is.
sharmini: of course, all sides use spin...
No, not the pro Hamas activist side. "roll:
sharmini: but the most sickening for me, as the ship, Rachel Corrie, sails towards a dangerous confrontation, is the outrageous attacks on Rachel Corrie and her family.
More idiots who are going to meet an end not of their satisfaction in one way or another. Here's how it will play out;
they will huddle and say how determined they are to break this blockade and how the Israelis are starving the Palestinians and these supplies must get through.
Israel will tell them they will not be permitted to land and offer them safe passage to Ashon where the supplies will be off loaded and taken by truck to Gaza. The activists will refuse on some grounds and Hamas will refuse the material as it is non essential.
They will attempt to sail through the blockade and will be boarded same as before and flown home once Israeli security has checked them out.
Will that be smoking or non smoking?
In response to: We call on the United States Government and the governments of the world to insist that Israel not block the safe passage of the ship in reaching Gaza, nor take any actions that may result in the harm of the civilians onboard.
sharmini: The worst is an article entitled "The (self)deceit of Rachel Corrie.
Its almost beyond belief that someone could sit down and write such evil ...and what it suggest to me is that only a guilty mindset could go to such extremes.
Kid trips and becomes instant worldwide famous martyr. Like what a crazy world huh?
Jun 5, 2010 12:53 AM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
emannigolJossakin Pirkanmaalla, Southern Finland Finland356 Posts
emannigolJossakin Pirkanmaalla, Southern Finland Finland356 posts
Albertaghost: Doubt it. R3ead the rest of your post, very biased and one dimensional. At the end, I will show what the other side is doing and then after that, a start of a solution providing one not boxed into one dimensional thinking.
"At the end, I will show what the other side is doing"
And this differs from what you are accusing me of how?
Albertaghost: There we go, no mention of terrorist activities designed purely to goad reaction by Israel.
Is provocation giving a right for breaking human rights and endangering civilians? I think not. So it's irrelevant concidering the topic.
We know that both sides are sharing the blame of violence.
Albertaghost: No mention of the climate of hate in Gaza.
Is hate giving a right for breaking human rights and endangering civilians? I think not. So it's irrelevant concidering the topic.
We know that both sides have plenty of hate against each other.
Albertaghost: No mention of goods and services being directed away from the people and to Al Qassam.
Is this kind of acts giving right to restrict work of humanitary aid organisations on region so the situation is getting even worse for civilians? I think not. So it's irrelevant concidering the topic.
We know that well being of Palestinian civilians isn't the most important issue for both sides.
Albertaghost: Now, in order to progress, you have to take both sides into account and see the entire field. The key factors are greed and power, trust, violence, land and time. All can be overcome providing there is a dialogue of cooperation rather than flat out blame.
Dialogue? We can blame Palestians and Hamas as much we like but we should close our eyes from Israel's violations? We can blame Palestinians and Hamas without considering what Israel has done, but only looking things otherway is one dimensional? One side can be blamed and one not.
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada5,914 posts
sharmini:
In response to: this might be more in line with your present discussion:
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994 (source: international red cross)SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK
Classes of vessels exempt from attack
47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:
ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;
I suppose this would be the closest to the Shilltilla that you can get however, if you will note, none of the supplies were indispensable to the survival as theywere ultimitely refused until certain conditions were met and, they certainly were not engaged in rescue ops as their stated aim was to break the blockade thus, they became a tool for aid and comfort to the enemy of those requesting the Shilltilla be rerouted to an inspection port.
sharmini:
In response to: (i) vessels which have surrendered;
One did not. It resisted inspection and rerouting to an inspection port. And, guess what, the ship was not attacked rather the boarding party faced with lethal belligerents defended themselves.
sharmini:
In response to: Conditions of exemption
48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:
(a) are innocently employed in their normal role; (b) submit to identification and inspection when required;
A - none of them were and; B - one of them did not.
sharmini:
In response to: Loss of exemption
All other categories of vessels exempt from attack 52. If any other class of vessel exempt from attack breaches any of the conditions of its exemption in paragraph 48, it may be attacked only if:
(a) diversion or capture is not feasible;
In other words,, they have to surrender and comply with the orders of the authorities in charge of the blockade.
One more thing, you will note that this document differentiates between surrender, attack, inspection. Too bad some of the Shills cannot.
Albertaghost: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Nothing pretentious there.
What makes you think that you are better?
In Israel is ruling military junta the same way as it does in North Korea .
You can't fool nobody with changing suits of Israeli
"politicians" from military uniform to "civilian".
None of them has rank lower than brigade general and the most "successful" are those from special units cause they are well known as guys trained on democratic traditions of such units with, special, great filling and respect for human, Palestinian or everybodys else who don't think like them, life.
Nathan Yahu, Tizi Lipi etc. democrats ?
Natan Yahu , Tizi Lipi and human rights ?
Of course but don't turn them back.
In Israel nobody can become nothing in politics if he is not
from army or MOSAD circles.
Accidentally?
Of course not.
Israel militants and eagles organized so system that they have
no concurrency. and that they can do what they wish.
So, democracy in Israel?
Like leaders like state.
You have not civilian government but the same as it has
not people in North Korea but North Koreans are evil inside
their frontiers and Israel is in and out.
North Koreans are not killing civilians in their environment and
are not conquering foreign territories doing ethnic cleansing on
them .
And at least, none of North Korean "politicians" is not a war
criminal Israeli are.
So, what makes you think that you are better than they are?
May be the Arabs don't want the peace between Israel and Palestine that is very clear. I am sorry to say this but if really they want peace for the two neighbors they should have force Hamas to lay down their weapons and support Mr Mahmud Abass. If the Arab league want that to happen it will happen but they are keeping blind eyes on Hamas and if they don't know the harm they are doing to the innocent Palestinians . Hamas has a very bad reputation and should be treated as evil they are
AlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada5,914 posts
Steevyv: What makes you think that you are better?
me? I'm a guy on a computer. You, you figure that I'm n charge of the world or something simply because I don't agree with you?
Steevyv: In Israel is ruling military junta the same way as it does in North Korea
So far they haven't embraced communism, sent missiles stormiing over italy, Greece, Turkey and Egypt like NK has relatively as well as kept five hundred thousand troops on a comon border with their next door neighbor with two intents - annex or destroy.
Steevyv: You can't fool nobody with changing suits of Israeli
"politicians" from military uniform to "civilian".
None of them has rank lower than brigade general and the most "successful" are those from special units cause they are well known as guys trained on democratic traditions of such units with, special, great filling and respect for human, Palestinian or everybodys else who don't think like them, life.
Nathan Yahu, Tizi Lipi etc. democrats ?
Natan Yahu , Tizi Lipi and human rights ?
Of course but don't turn them back.
In Israel nobody can become nothing in politics if he is not
from army or MOSAD circles.
Accidentally?
Of course not.
Israel militants and eagles organized so system that they have
no concurrency. and that they can do what they wish.
So, democracy in Israel?
Like leaders like state.
You have not civilian government but the same as it has
not people in North Korea but North Koreans are evil inside
their frontiers and Israel is in and out.
North Koreans are not killing civilians in their environment and
are not conquering foreign territories doing ethnic cleansing on
them .
And at least, none of North Korean "politicians" is not a war
criminal Israeli are.
So, what makes you think that you are better than they are?
You are worse.
I really don't know what to say to tell the truth. I'd like to post something but feel that somehow I'd be wasting my time so will just say,
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It was supposed to be sarcastic.