Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet ( Archived) (845)

Jun 2, 2010 11:27 AM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
SHAHIDKHAN: they were defending themselves? wow
I said,Read it,NOT make a Spectacle of yourself!
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Jun 2, 2010 11:27 AM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
SHAHIDKHAN: they were defending themselves? wow
I said,Read it,NOT make a Spectacle of yourself!
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Jun 2, 2010 11:52 AM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Steevyv
SteevyvSteevyvsisak, Central Croatia Croatia65 Threads 805 Posts
Jun 2, 2010 12:05 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
emannigol: Including oppression and killing of civilians? This has taken place since the beginning of settlements and is the source of problems today.


Oppression? Palestinians are free to give up violence and join with Israel in a lengthy peace process at any time.

emannigol: And negotiations with PLO?


When they recognized Israel's right to exist and renounced violence they became an entity that could be dealt with.

emannigol:
Always when truck driver is knowning there's a child on the road. Israel is taking action knowing
there would be civilian casualties. Most likely to happen with schools and hospitals.


As I explained, Israel has no choice but to take the action and does not know if there are civilians in the buildings. Like the truck driver, they take reasonable precautions however, when the driver is faced with parents deliberately placing children in the center of the road or, Hamas deliberately ensuring that any action Israel takes is going to give bad press, there really isn't a lot they can do except minimize the civilian (and I say that loosely) casualties. And no, they cannot predict the future and know what and who is going to be in any building until they are actually in the building. One would assume that a fighter would not endanger his own people so, it is not up to Israel to assume.

Wondering, what do the Hamas supporters say about this when you speak on their forums?

emannigol: Does two wrongs make a right? Smells like faulty generalization as well.


It's actually four wrongs. One by Hamas, one by Israel and two by the Palestinian people for electing this scum and another by some by becoming part and parcel of any military action by volunteering to become human shields.

emannigol:
Yes, but how the situation really differs from what it's been for half of the century?


Oh, you mean the us and them things. Not much. Israel still will talk and Palestinians through various terrorist groups attacks Israeli civilians in order to gain world sympathy while determined to sidetrack any peace process.

emannigol: Killing all hostages with terrorists isn't the most reasonable thing to do. Worse way to handle the situation would be to demolish several other building in the attack. No wait, that's what they are really doing.


Most reasonable thing to do is to not take actions against Israel period and let the peace process play it's course. What do they say when you mention this on Hamas forums?

emannigol: I don't think anybody has difficulty of understanding why Israel is doing what it is doing. The problem is how and for who it is doing it.


They've pretty much given up after being attacked in various wars, terrorist actions and such. Right now, they are just resigned to finishing a wall, letting the Palestinians wallow in self and world pity and take the heat from protesters. Like a lot of people already hate them and coddle their enemies so, why should they listen to anybody and compromise their security?
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Jun 2, 2010 12:07 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
ChiGuy
ChiGuyChiGuyChichester, West Sussex, England UK35 Posts
Gawd, you guys have some novel chat up lines.....
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Jun 2, 2010 12:15 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
I'm going to fly an airplane full of "humanitarian supplies" to Kurds living in Turkey, do you think the Turkish government would appreciate the irony?rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 2, 2010 12:24 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
alfibarios
alfibariosalfibariosaegion, Peloponnese Greece4 Threads 289 Posts
Conrad73: I'm going to fly an airplane full of "humanitarian supplies" to Kurds living in Turkey, do you think the Turkish government would appreciate the irony?

i would bet not even a cent on that.air to air missiles are very bad for the health.rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 2, 2010 12:56 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
sharmini
sharminisharminidublin, Dublin Ireland83 Threads 1 Polls 2,918 Posts
ah, but theres this...










Steevyv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xqa7PkkPso&feature=player_embedded
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Jun 2, 2010 1:19 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
emannigol
emannigolemannigolJossakin Pirkanmaalla, Southern Finland Finland356 Posts
Albertaghost: Oppression? Palestinians are free to give up violence and join with Israel in a lengthy peace process at any time.


So these few million Palestinians have been held captives for half century because they are so violent?

Albertaghost: As I explained, Israel has no choice but to take the action and does not know if there are civilians in the buildings.


They are fighting in area inhabited by several million civilians so it's hardly a surprise because they don't even have anywhere to evacuate. Shouldn't be surprising that hospitals and schools might have civilians inside either.

Albertaghost: And no, they cannot predict the future and know what and who is going to be in any building until they are actually in the building. One would assume that a fighter would not endanger his own people so, it is not up to Israel to assume.


Who they think they are fighting against? They are terrorists so that's what they are doing. Artillery fire isn't too selective way of fighting in a place full of civilians.

Albertaghost: Most reasonable thing to do is to not take actions against Israel period and let the peace process play it's course.


I was talking about hostages. It doesn't really matter even if they would be voluntary as you are generalizing.

Albertaghost: Like a lot of people already hate them and coddle their enemies so, why should they listen to anybody and compromise their security?


They ignored UN resolutions from the beginning. That isn't the best way to make friends.
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Jun 2, 2010 1:25 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Costapacket
CostapacketCostapacketparis, Centre-Val de Loire France2 Threads 2,182 Posts
magna1: But,after all....Israel has NOT carried out 15.367 mortal terror-attacks since 9/11....NIGERIA...the village of DOGO NAHAWA,-500 poor,non-muslims butchered.....by whom....SUDAN,-surely Israel aren´t responsible for 300.000 casualties,and millions displaced...the list is endless....To quote PERVEZ MUSHARRAF,8of all people),:-"Islamic civilization is the most illiterate,backward,unhealthy,unenlighted,deprived and weakest of all civilizations".....Just another quote....-"Who says you own Britain anyway?Britain belongs to Allah,-the whole world belongs to Allah....If I go to the jungle,I´m not going to live like an animal,-I´m going to propagate a superior way of life,-and Islam is a superior way of life...."...


Im not sure about you!,

you quote attrocities like you care yet your a fanatic trying to force a way of life onto people that dont want it.
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Jun 2, 2010 1:35 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Veritaas
VeritaasVeritaasLondon, Greater London, England UK2 Threads 5,839 Posts
Conrad73: I'm going to fly an airplane full of "humanitarian supplies" to Kurds living in Turkey, do you think the Turkish government would appreciate the irony?


Oh they would welcome that plane with welcome arms!!!!!!!rolling on the floor laughing thumbs up
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Jun 2, 2010 1:36 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Abram
AbramAbramGoshen, Ohio USA9 Threads 2,077 Posts
alfibarios: ok. but i think i asked a name of the country ,usa helped to get her ground back. u write things i cant disagree to apoint , but not ONE name.

I do not need to name anyone alfibarios, you just happened to make a comment that inspired me of the truths I know, truths I've lived. I, more then 20 years ago, was has blind as many who are jumping to conclusions in order to defend their own lives, their own conscience. Funny thing the conscience, and the ability of people to live freely of innocence, or to live freely of guilt. They can only be free of guilt if they can deny the TRUTH. cheers handshake
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Jun 2, 2010 1:38 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
SHAHIDKHAN
SHAHIDKHANSHAHIDKHANpeshawar, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Pakistan3 Threads 264 Posts
magna1: But,after all....Israel has NOT carried out 15.367 mortal terror-attacks since 9/11....NIGERIA...the village of DOGO NAHAWA,-500 poor,non-muslims butchered.....by whom....SUDAN,-surely Israel aren´t responsible for 300.000 casualties,and millions displaced...the list is endless....To quote PERVEZ MUSHARRAF,8of all people),:-"Islamic civilization is the most illiterate,backward,unhealthy,unenlighted,deprived and weakest of all civilizations".....Just another quote....-"Who says you own Britain anyway?Britain belongs to Allah,-the whole world belongs to Allah....If I go to the jungle,I´m not going to live like an animal,-I´m going to propagate a superior way of life,-and Islam is a superior way of life...."...


why are you defending Israel? i never said that Muslim terrorists are doing something good! Israel is responsible for every innocent Palestinian killed. i am against those people who are killing innocent people whether they are Muslims, Jews or Christians. i answered ur question in some previous threads, and it is well understood that everything belongs to God. i am not asking any for revenge and i will never appreciate any muslim terrorist killing non muslim. i can give you thousands reasons the way you did to defend israil with some examples but why should i defend those people who are brutally killing other human beings.
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Jun 2, 2010 1:41 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
SilverBirch
SilverBirchSilverBirchSomewhere, Virginia USA17 Threads 4 Polls 3,158 Posts
wonderworker: Am I the only one posting here who is neither Jew nor Muslim? Nor Zionist-Christian?
This recurring thread seems to amount to nothing more than ethnic bias.And a dash of mythology.

Okay,I've been sympathetic to Palestine with no financial,practical or superstitious connection to those people I dont even know.
I base that solely on an over-developed sense of fair play.

Maybe this topic needs a moderator of no semitic disposition.And no tradition.
A Slobbovian?
or a Martian?
I'm a martian!, er,..I mean a Buddist!
And ,........all we are saying,............

Is Give Peace a Chance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Jun 2, 2010 1:43 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
SilverBirch: I'm a martian!, er,..I mean a Buddist!
And ,........all we are saying,............

Is Give Peace a Chance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Christian/Protestant,according to your profile.dunno
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Jun 2, 2010 1:43 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
u2Kitty
u2Kittyu2KittyClose to the ocean, South Denmark Denmark23 Threads 974 Posts
Abram: I do not need to name anyone alfibarios, you just happened to make a comment that inspired me of the truths I know, truths I've lived. I, more then 20 years ago, was has blind as many who are jumping to conclusions in order to defend their own lives, their own conscience. Funny thing the conscience, and the ability of people to live freely of innocence, or to live freely of guilt. They can only be free of guilt if they can deny the TRUTH.


Well you mention the truth..

Here`s the truth told by former IDFs:











gift
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Jun 2, 2010 1:45 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Steevyv
SteevyvSteevyvsisak, Central Croatia Croatia65 Threads 805 Posts
It is not a true that this convoy was provocation!

The convoy, and many, many of them, was already required.

In Gaza, below each minimum of human dignity, held by Israel and Egypt in the ghetto, lives for decades 1.5 million people!

These people came in such a situation quiet non incidental.

Ethnic cleansing of Lebensraum is the official Israeli policy, by which he wish to create, and he creates, in Gaza impossible conditions for life that will slowly forced the Palestinians to "leave alone" this territory so that one day Israel could annex it as he already has done in other undoubtedly Palestinian territories, not recognizing any UN resolution.

The best proof for that is the fact that Israel allows the departure to all Palestinians who want to go but not to return to no one, never again!

On the other hand, Egypt, targeted destination of potential refugees from Gaza, does not allow immigration because it is obvious that in that way Israel wants to destabilize and saddle, to stuck a stone in his bag, and break for yourself another favor.

And all this happens in front the eyes of the UN, the USA, Christian Europe and the entire international community, which don't wont to do nothing, for years and decades.

The noises and the dust about the last Israeli massacre of the inhabitants of Gaza are already settled and everything is sunken in routine that understands that it's there all OK .
The only important thing is that nobody shoots there, and that in the world does not go pictures of results of use numerous of "permissible" and illegal weapons on unarmed civilians with dismembered women, the elderly, children ....... which will cause troubles to legions and hordes of dreaming, self satisfied parasite politicians, by , o hell, asking them why we are paying them when they have organized the world order in which this is possible.

Gaza is not only a shame for the international order but also true of its image as that were Vukovar, Sarajevo, Srebrenica.

The Israeli state has attacked civilian ships 140 km far from its territorial waters and according to the international law; this is the act of piracy, par excelence.

So Israel placed himself shoulder to shoulder with Somali pirates - the fact and truth.

But, Israel this time attacked, no more Palestinians as we are already all accustomed, but citizens of European countries on what we are not accustomed.
But, Israel this time applied brutal force, not against some poor Palestinians as we are already all accustomed, but against Europeans on what we are not accustomed.
And, the worse, some of them are killed, some wounded, all arrested and badly treated on what we are not at all accustomed.


European governments have obligations to protect their citizens and they must take care about public opinion so we shall see what will they do.

In the meantime ...

Convoy for Palestine was, also, manifestation of peoples disagreement with Israel and any other terrorism ,disagreement with politics and politicians that allows them, manifestation of people which does not allow themselves to be pushed in such fold and who wants to take matters into their own hands to change them.

For those who live from such world in which are massacres legal way to reach their purposes they are provocateurs.

To all little people and small nations such convoys and people are hope.
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Jun 2, 2010 1:45 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Costapacket
CostapacketCostapacketparis, Centre-Val de Loire France2 Threads 2,182 Posts
SHAHIDKHAN: why are you defending Israel? i never said that Muslim terrorists are doing something good! Israel is responsible for every innocent Palestinian killed. i am against those people who are killing innocent people whether they are Muslims, Jews or Christians. i answered ur question in some previous threads, and it is well understood that everything belongs to God. i am not asking any for revenge and i will never appreciate any muslim terrorist killing non muslim. i can give you thousands reasons the way you did to defend israil with some examples but why should i defend those people who are brutally killing other human beings.


Perhaps because of circumstances!

Israel is shaped the way it is because of its fight to survive.

All its neighbours wont admit or recognise Israel and say that they dont have the right to exist, they say they must be exterminated.

How can there be peace with Israel when with such inntolerance.

Surely give and take, sit and talk, try to see the other persons point of view.
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Jun 2, 2010 1:46 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
SHAHIDKHAN
SHAHIDKHANSHAHIDKHANpeshawar, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Pakistan3 Threads 264 Posts
Conrad73: I'm going to fly an airplane full of "humanitarian supplies" to Kurds living in Turkey, do you think the Turkish government would appreciate the irony?

Palestine is not in Israel.
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Jun 2, 2010 1:49 PM CST Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet
Costapacket
CostapacketCostapacketparis, Centre-Val de Loire France2 Threads 2,182 Posts
u2Kitty: Well you mention the truth..

Here`s the truth told by former IDFs:


Anyone can post a few selected photos.
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