THREAD IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL (677)
RayfromUSA: Total BS that.
The Balfour Declaration didn't give even one square inch of land to the Zionists.
Britain couldn't give what it didn't own.
The declaration merely said that Britain favored the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
But it also said that nothing at all should be done to infringe upon the rights of the Palestinians.
It was presumed that the Jews would BUY land in Palestine from the Palestinians and create their homeland in that land that they bought.
But that is certainly not what happened.
Instead the Jews formed terror groups and attacked the British driving them out of the territory and then began massacring Palestinians driving them out of the areas the Jews wanted for themselves.
Neither Britain nor the UN ever "alloted" any land whatsoever to the Jews. The UN just drew up a ceasefire plan to stop hostilities. How could the UN give Palestinian land to the invaders? It didn't. It just tried to stop the fighting.
And besides, since that time Israel has invaded, dominated, ethnic-cleansed, and annexed most of the land that, under the UN ceasefire agreement, belongs to the Palestinians.
Where is the Palestinian right to live at peace in their own land with secure borders and the rights of statehood.
Israel is of total bad faith.
You asking to be banned.The Balfour Declaration didn't give even one square inch of land to the Zionists.
Britain couldn't give what it didn't own.
The declaration merely said that Britain favored the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
But it also said that nothing at all should be done to infringe upon the rights of the Palestinians.
It was presumed that the Jews would BUY land in Palestine from the Palestinians and create their homeland in that land that they bought.
But that is certainly not what happened.
Instead the Jews formed terror groups and attacked the British driving them out of the territory and then began massacring Palestinians driving them out of the areas the Jews wanted for themselves.
Neither Britain nor the UN ever "alloted" any land whatsoever to the Jews. The UN just drew up a ceasefire plan to stop hostilities. How could the UN give Palestinian land to the invaders? It didn't. It just tried to stop the fighting.
And besides, since that time Israel has invaded, dominated, ethnic-cleansed, and annexed most of the land that, under the UN ceasefire agreement, belongs to the Palestinians.
Where is the Palestinian right to live at peace in their own land with secure borders and the rights of statehood.
Israel is of total bad faith.
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GUZMAN1: No doubt about Israel is their land, the question is what happens with others that lived there. They were jews before convert, forced or volunteer, to Christianism before, and Islam after. But it's the same people, or lived there during generations.
The majority those 2000 were local inhabitants (arab tribes),the jewish people always,a small minority till the end of WW1.------ This thread is Archived ------
GUZMAN1: No doubt about Israel is their land, the question is what happens with others that lived there. They were jews before convert, forced or volunteer, to Christianism before, and Islam after. But it's the same people, or lived there during generations.
Not so at all.
In ancient times, despite the popular myth, the Jews never occupied anywhere near the area that we call "Israel" today.
The Jews lived in Judea. The area just around Jerusalem.
They had no part of the coastline. They didn't own Galilee, nor Samaria, nor the Negev.
On the following map, only the area indicated as the "kingdom of Judah" (in light green) was ever "Jewish".
The darker green part called the "kingdom of Israel" consisted of the 10 Israelite tribes that were later dispersed by the Assyrians. Those tribes were never "Jewish". In fact Israel was often at war against Judah.
The Jews were only the 3 tribes of the Kingdom of Judah. Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The other Israelite tribes disappeared long before the idea of "Jewishness" ever existed.
But of course the modern Jews like to use the name "Israel" instead of Judah because it enlarges the amount of land they claim to somehow own.
As for the Palestinians, they are the descendants of the Phillistines, the Edomites, the Samaritans, The Moabites, and the Ammonites, not to mention a lot of Greeks, Romans and others who married into the mix. Palestinians are all the people of the land except the foreign Jews who invaded the area.
By your reasoning. The American Indians could claim to own all of North America, the Anglo-Saxons could lay claim to Germany, and everybody in the world could claim to own Africa.
Ancient habitation does NOT confer any sort of right to steal the land of people living in that land now.
You certainly wouldn't like it if someone seized your house on the claim that their great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great grandfather supposedly had permission from God to steal the land from the native people living there at the time.
Now would you?
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RayfromUSA: Not so at all.
In ancient times, despite the popular myth, the Jews never occupied anywhere near the area that we call "Israel" today.
The Jews lived in Judea. The area just around Jerusalem.
They had no part of the coastline. They didn't own Galilee, nor Samaria, nor the Negev.
On the following map, only the area indicated as the "kingdom of Judah" (in light green) was ever "Jewish".
The darker green part called the "kingdom of Israel" consisted of the 10 Israelite tribes that were later dispersed by the Assyrians. Those tribes were never "Jewish". In fact Israel was often at war against Judah.
The Jews were only the 3 tribes of the Kingdom of Judah. Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The other Israelite tribes disappeared long before the idea of "Jewishness" ever existed.
But of course the modern Jews like to use the name "Israel" instead of Judah because it enlarges the amount of land they claim to somehow own.
As for the Palestinians, they are the descendants of the Phillistines, the Edomites, the Samaritans, The Moabites, and the Ammonites, not to mention a lot of Greeks, Romans and others who married into the mix. Palestinians are all the people of the land except the foreign Jews who invaded the area.
By your reasoning. The American Indians could claim to own all of North America, the Anglo-Saxons could lay claim to Germany, and everybody in the world could claim to own Africa.
Ancient habitation does NOT confer any sort of right to steal the land of people living in that land now.
You certainly wouldn't like it if someone seized your house on the claim that their great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great grandfather supposedly had permission from God to steal the land from the native people living there at the time.
Now would you?
In ancient times, despite the popular myth, the Jews never occupied anywhere near the area that we call "Israel" today.
The Jews lived in Judea. The area just around Jerusalem.
They had no part of the coastline. They didn't own Galilee, nor Samaria, nor the Negev.
On the following map, only the area indicated as the "kingdom of Judah" (in light green) was ever "Jewish".
The darker green part called the "kingdom of Israel" consisted of the 10 Israelite tribes that were later dispersed by the Assyrians. Those tribes were never "Jewish". In fact Israel was often at war against Judah.
The Jews were only the 3 tribes of the Kingdom of Judah. Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The other Israelite tribes disappeared long before the idea of "Jewishness" ever existed.
But of course the modern Jews like to use the name "Israel" instead of Judah because it enlarges the amount of land they claim to somehow own.
As for the Palestinians, they are the descendants of the Phillistines, the Edomites, the Samaritans, The Moabites, and the Ammonites, not to mention a lot of Greeks, Romans and others who married into the mix. Palestinians are all the people of the land except the foreign Jews who invaded the area.
By your reasoning. The American Indians could claim to own all of North America, the Anglo-Saxons could lay claim to Germany, and everybody in the world could claim to own Africa.
Ancient habitation does NOT confer any sort of right to steal the land of people living in that land now.
You certainly wouldn't like it if someone seized your house on the claim that their great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great grandfather supposedly had permission from God to steal the land from the native people living there at the time.
Now would you?
Oops, for some reason the map link didn't show up.
Here's the map link. (I hope)
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chris27292729: The majority those 2000 were local inhabitants (arab tribes),the jewish people always,a small minority till the end of WW1.
I don't think so, the Christianism spread during the first centuries basically between Jews and their descendants didn't left their land. After the most people of all Near and middle East was jewish or Christian in the time of Mohammed started his predication, and after the conversions were fast and massive, it was a historical phenomenom, a small group of nomads joined great empires, different cultures and other people. In the territory today called Israel too.
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RayfromUSA: Not so at all.
In ancient times, despite the popular myth, the Jews never occupied anywhere near the area that we call "Israel" today.
The Jews lived in Judea. The area just around Jerusalem.
They had no part of the coastline. They didn't own Galilee, nor Samaria, nor the Negev.
On the following map, only the area indicated as the "kingdom of Judah" (in light green) was ever "Jewish".
The darker green part called the "kingdom of Israel" consisted of the 10 Israelite tribes that were later dispersed by the Assyrians. Those tribes were never "Jewish". In fact Israel was often at war against Judah.
The Jews were only the 3 tribes of the Kingdom of Judah. Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The other Israelite tribes disappeared long before the idea of "Jewishness" ever existed.
But of course the modern Jews like to use the name "Israel" instead of Judah because it enlarges the amount of land they claim to somehow own.
As for the Palestinians, they are the descendants of the Phillistines, the Edomites, the Samaritans, The Moabites, and the Ammonites, not to mention a lot of Greeks, Romans and others who married into the mix. Palestinians are all the people of the land except the foreign Jews who invaded the area.
By your reasoning. The American Indians could claim to own all of North America, the Anglo-Saxons could lay claim to Germany, and everybody in the world could claim to own Africa.
Ancient habitation does NOT confer any sort of right to steal the land of people living in that land now.
You certainly wouldn't like it if someone seized your house on the claim that their great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great grandfather supposedly had permission from God to steal the land from the native people living there at the time.
Now would you?
In ancient times, despite the popular myth, the Jews never occupied anywhere near the area that we call "Israel" today.
The Jews lived in Judea. The area just around Jerusalem.
They had no part of the coastline. They didn't own Galilee, nor Samaria, nor the Negev.
On the following map, only the area indicated as the "kingdom of Judah" (in light green) was ever "Jewish".
The darker green part called the "kingdom of Israel" consisted of the 10 Israelite tribes that were later dispersed by the Assyrians. Those tribes were never "Jewish". In fact Israel was often at war against Judah.
The Jews were only the 3 tribes of the Kingdom of Judah. Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The other Israelite tribes disappeared long before the idea of "Jewishness" ever existed.
But of course the modern Jews like to use the name "Israel" instead of Judah because it enlarges the amount of land they claim to somehow own.
As for the Palestinians, they are the descendants of the Phillistines, the Edomites, the Samaritans, The Moabites, and the Ammonites, not to mention a lot of Greeks, Romans and others who married into the mix. Palestinians are all the people of the land except the foreign Jews who invaded the area.
By your reasoning. The American Indians could claim to own all of North America, the Anglo-Saxons could lay claim to Germany, and everybody in the world could claim to own Africa.
Ancient habitation does NOT confer any sort of right to steal the land of people living in that land now.
You certainly wouldn't like it if someone seized your house on the claim that their great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
great great great great great great great grandfather supposedly had permission from God to steal the land from the native people living there at the time.
Now would you?
"Ancient times" is a long long time, maps changed, empires dissappeared, people and culture changed and the kingdoms of Juda and Israel joined. And time continuously changed maps.
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GUZMAN1: "Ancient times" is a long long time, maps changed, empires dissappeared, people and culture changed and the kingdoms of Juda and Israel joined. And time continuously changed maps.
Although not cited, I'd say that map depicts the region in the Early Bronze Age long before the time of Alexander or the Romans. It is only indicative of a certain period in ancient times and the borders are in no way 'fixed'.
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Class5: Although not cited, I'd say that map depicts the region in the Early Bronze Age long before the time of Alexander or the Romans. It is only indicative of a certain period in ancient times and the borders are in no way 'fixed'.
Strange. Who owned the land of Israel as depicted inthat map?
This one is similar and depicts Israel or Judea at the time of Jesus. Tiberius and Nazareth are to the far north so, Judea was far larger than Ray has contended.
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chris27292729: Get the Brits (with their "divide and Rule" policies at the time)+ the French, to sort out the mess,they have created now. Primary responsibility belongs to the Brits,giving in to the Jewish lobby during WW1 and after,the promise of a homeland for Jewish people,in a land they did not own for 2000 years.
The entire world sorted the problem out in an equitable manner. They offered 80% of the land to the Arabs and 20% to the Jews who had lived there for all eternity. The Palestinians opted out of this agreement and have been at war over it ever since.
As for not owning it for 2000 years, the Palestinians never owned it.
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chris27292729: Is there any reason,just because Arabs,not accepted Res 181 ,to built settlements outside Res,181 borders?
The settlements are homes for civilians not for Israel's security reasons.Therefor pressure,advandage and better leverage, in the negotiating table for Israel's expansion for more land.-
The settlements are homes for civilians not for Israel's security reasons.Therefor pressure,advandage and better leverage, in the negotiating table for Israel's expansion for more land.-
Israel is protected by a civilian military thus, if you are going to have long term security in these territories, you have to have the soldiers living close to it thus, the most expedient way is to have their families and day jobs there as well.
Israel, with population of five million can field a million men in hours using this method.
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jvaski: AMERICA is the same......except we've had Jews running half the country for decades ......
But it's only when you get a Christian in there like Bush that fifty million oppressed people half a world away get their freedom!
Bring back Bush!!!!!!!
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chris27292729: The OP has given you a reply,but she will NEVER admit that Israel is "guilty of many awful acts",its always the other side.
Actually both sides commit and are guilty of war crimes as all entities engaged in warfare do Chris but, as there is so much anti Israel sentiment going on, outside of the OP, few of the Palestinian war crimes are mentioned.
Best way to not have war crimes is to be at peace. Or better yet, not start a war in the first place and accept the UN resolution instead.
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Class5: Although not cited, I'd say that map depicts the region in the Early Bronze Age long before the time of Alexander or the Romans. It is only indicative of a certain period in ancient times and the borders are in no way 'fixed'.
Yes, maps of different ages only reflect different situations, impossible to extrapolate to the people of today. Do you know how many people thinks Alexander The Great is his National Hero in the zone of Greece, the Balkans and Turkey? The past, maps and people....impossible fix concepts with this.
Do you know what word use the arabs to define the Europeans? Rumi.
It means "Romans" and include the Turks, even the Anatolian Turks!!! The word is ancient, started to use before someone drew a divided line between Asia and Europe.
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Albertaghost: But it's only when you get a Christian in there like Bush that fifty million oppressed people half a world away get their freedom!
Bring back Bush!!!!!!!
Oh,JV misses him terribly,he just doesn't let on!Bring back Bush!!!!!!!
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chris27292729: Even all th Jews were speaking Greek at the time.-
you really have in inflated sense of Greek-Importance!------ This thread is Archived ------
GUZMAN1: I did not understand well. In another poll I already wrote that, since the basis that a have recognized the "right of return" as a fundamental principle and therefore timeless, Jews were entitled to return with or without anyone's permission to Israel. And also to exercise the "Right of Resistance" (also defined by UN) against the illegal British occupation.
The Jews had the right to exercise that strength against the "Palestinians" or "Arabs" who tried to prevent his return, but also to expel them because it is their country of origin. The U.N. does not limit the concept of "country of origin," no matter what anyone may originate from three generations before or since 3,000 years earlier.
What Illegal British Occupation?The Jews had the right to exercise that strength against the "Palestinians" or "Arabs" who tried to prevent his return, but also to expel them because it is their country of origin. The U.N. does not limit the concept of "country of origin," no matter what anyone may originate from three generations before or since 3,000 years earlier.
British were given the Mandate over Palestine after WWI!
You really ought to read up on your History!
And your Concept of the Right to Return is totally flawed!
Remind me not to use you as a Lawyer if I ever have Court-Business in Spain!
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patmac: And this has what to do with the thread.....Chris you just showed your hate for the British. A thing you show so regularly....I do not intend discussing Cyprus with you as that is a totally different question.
I just used the fact you admitted that the folk who OCCUPIED Israel did not rule it the same as the folk who OCCUPIED Cyprus....Oh and it was the Americans who got the French and British out of Egypt...A mistake that many acknowledge today.....How long was Suez shut????
I only remember that in 1956 the Suez-Share plunged to SFr. 1.40!I just used the fact you admitted that the folk who OCCUPIED Israel did not rule it the same as the folk who OCCUPIED Cyprus....Oh and it was the Americans who got the French and British out of Egypt...A mistake that many acknowledge today.....How long was Suez shut????
That the Territorials were called up for several weeks,and there was a Weekend Drivingban for all but Essential Services during the same period.
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GUZMAN1: Impossible, the concept of sovereignty of the United Nations has nothing to do with it.
oops, sorry, I was playing attention to the videos. Preparing the trial.
Nonsense!oops, sorry, I was playing attention to the videos. Preparing the trial.
UN is the extension of the League of Nations!
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Albertaghost: The entire world sorted the problem out in an equitable manner. They offered 80% of the land to the Arabs and 20% to the Jews who had lived there for all eternity. The Palestinians opted out of this agreement and have been at war over it ever since.
As for not owning it for 2000 years, the Palestinians never owned it.
As for not owning it for 2000 years, the Palestinians never owned it.
You are dead right,the Palestinians never owned the land ,their goats,camels,livestock roaming this land and the people cultivating it,for 2000,never owened it.------ This thread is Archived ------
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In the past, there was a strategic reason for supporting Israel as a bastion of US/UK influence in the middle east. Preventing the rise of a powerful Pan-Islamic super-state with unlimited petro-wealth. The presence of Israel and all its weapons obligated Arab states to seek super-power protection and opened the door for US bases all over the place.
But now, the US has its bases. And since the globalists control the West, They really don't need an insane nationalist power in the mid-east anymore. The state of Israel is now a dangerous and volatile island of fierce racial-nationalistic extremism just at a time when the West is trying to move towards globalism.
The destructive invasion of Jerusalem foretold by Christ will surely arise out of the already growing conflict between Globalism and Zionism.
quote]
You realize, WOW FACTOR, why explain that the three possible scenarios in the other poll? A religious or ideological alliance is more vulnerable than one based on mutual interest, and yet each partner should be a must.[/quote]
Hey, WOW FACTOR, I only said what is in large types, the rest was wroten by this guy, I only quoted.