Why Not fully back Kofi Annan and give peace a chance in Syria (411)
It has broke in the last hour That Syrian forces have shot down a Turkish fighter Jet over Syrian waters.
So why have they been over Syrian water???
Relations between Ankara and Damascus have become marred by Turkey’s open support of the Syrian opposition, which is seeking to topple the government of President Bashar Al-Assad. On Friday, Turkey denied the Syrian government’s accusations that it is supplying rebels with arms.
Still, Turkey remains a NATO member, which means that in the event of an attack it could summon the aid of all the alliance members. In April, Turkey already called on NATO to protect its borders as cross-border fire from Syria hit a refugee camp on Turkish territory. These statements were condemned as “provocative” by Assad’s government.
International relations expert Mark Almond says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria’s capabilities.
“If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad’s regime, the first thing they’ll want to do is to knock out Syria’s air forces and defense systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria’s responses would be possible. But it is also possible this is a tragic mishap,” Almond told RT from Bilkent University in Ankara.
So why have they been over Syrian water???
Relations between Ankara and Damascus have become marred by Turkey’s open support of the Syrian opposition, which is seeking to topple the government of President Bashar Al-Assad. On Friday, Turkey denied the Syrian government’s accusations that it is supplying rebels with arms.
Still, Turkey remains a NATO member, which means that in the event of an attack it could summon the aid of all the alliance members. In April, Turkey already called on NATO to protect its borders as cross-border fire from Syria hit a refugee camp on Turkish territory. These statements were condemned as “provocative” by Assad’s government.
International relations expert Mark Almond says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria’s capabilities.
“If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad’s regime, the first thing they’ll want to do is to knock out Syria’s air forces and defense systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria’s responses would be possible. But it is also possible this is a tragic mishap,” Almond told RT from Bilkent University in Ankara.
------ This thread is Archived ------
The UN now says that the violence in Syria has displaced .....1.5m. That is near 4 times what the Red Cross reported only 3 weeks ago.
Displaced from Homs......250,000
Displaced from N. Syria (The Alawite area)......350,000
In 38 provinces, the hospitals....only 1/2 are still open. They don't have fuel to power them.
It is not that the UN or Red Cross are not helping. They are.
Provided in June were food rations for 451,000. The plan is to provide
850,000 in July.
The Red Cross is trying to get into the conflict area to remove trapped civilians.
More than 86,000 Syrian....have been registered as refugees in Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. Up 20,000 in only a week.
The mass exodus of Sunni Syrian is only beginning. With most of the 1.5 displaced being Sunni.....and only 86,000 registered as refugess.....there are many more to come.
At the end Syria will be a country of 4m Alawite and Assad's bloody army of 200,000 Alawite flying Russian HINDs to patrol the borders.....
news.yahoo.com/syria-violence-hampers-aid-operations-u-n-074012369.htlm
Displaced from Homs......250,000
Displaced from N. Syria (The Alawite area)......350,000
In 38 provinces, the hospitals....only 1/2 are still open. They don't have fuel to power them.
It is not that the UN or Red Cross are not helping. They are.
Provided in June were food rations for 451,000. The plan is to provide
850,000 in July.
The Red Cross is trying to get into the conflict area to remove trapped civilians.
More than 86,000 Syrian....have been registered as refugees in Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. Up 20,000 in only a week.
The mass exodus of Sunni Syrian is only beginning. With most of the 1.5 displaced being Sunni.....and only 86,000 registered as refugess.....there are many more to come.
At the end Syria will be a country of 4m Alawite and Assad's bloody army of 200,000 Alawite flying Russian HINDs to patrol the borders.....
news.yahoo.com/syria-violence-hampers-aid-operations-u-n-074012369.htlm
------ This thread is Archived ------
Boban1: It has broke in the last hour That Syrian forces have shot down a Turkish fighter Jet over Syrian waters.
So why have they been over Syrian water???Relations between Ankara and Damascus have become marred by Turkey’s open support of the Syrian opposition, which is seeking to topple the government of President Bashar Al-Assad. On Friday, Turkey denied the Syrian government’s accusations that it is supplying rebels with arms.
Still, Turkey remains a NATO member, which means that in the event of an attack it could summon the aid of all the alliance members. In April, Turkey already called on NATO to protect its borders as cross-border fire from Syria hit a refugee camp on Turkish territory. These statements were condemned as “provocative” by Assad’s government.
International relations expert Mark Almond says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria’s capabilities.
“If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad’s regime, the first thing they’ll want to do is to knock out Syria’s air forces and defense systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria’s responses would be possible. But it is also possible this is a tragic mishap,” Almond told RT from Bilkent University in Ankara.
So why have they been over Syrian water???Relations between Ankara and Damascus have become marred by Turkey’s open support of the Syrian opposition, which is seeking to topple the government of President Bashar Al-Assad. On Friday, Turkey denied the Syrian government’s accusations that it is supplying rebels with arms.
Still, Turkey remains a NATO member, which means that in the event of an attack it could summon the aid of all the alliance members. In April, Turkey already called on NATO to protect its borders as cross-border fire from Syria hit a refugee camp on Turkish territory. These statements were condemned as “provocative” by Assad’s government.
International relations expert Mark Almond says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria’s capabilities.
“If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad’s regime, the first thing they’ll want to do is to knock out Syria’s air forces and defense systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria’s responses would be possible. But it is also possible this is a tragic mishap,” Almond told RT from Bilkent University in Ankara.
I would say that is part of the coming Arab League response to Assad's
brutal treatment of Sunni Syrians...........Syria needs to get ready for a lot more. Arab League has 2 times the combat aircraft that Syria does.
I was wondering if Turkey was going to come into this. Turkey adds another major combat force to the Arab Leagues Military Forces.....and adds a northern combat zone.......
Assad and his Alawite Army just maybe be squeezed like bug between two rocks.......
------ This thread is Archived ------
A little more on the Turkish aircraft.
It was a F-4. They don't know it was shot down or had mechanical trouble. They are searching a area of the MED with vessels and helo......if so.....they think that the aircraft went down in international waters. That does not mean that a engagement did not occur in Syrian airspace.
But I doubt if Syria would not let them fly helo into Syria airspace or over Syrian waters for a pilot search.
But clearly the Turks lost a aircraft......
It was a F-4. They don't know it was shot down or had mechanical trouble. They are searching a area of the MED with vessels and helo......if so.....they think that the aircraft went down in international waters. That does not mean that a engagement did not occur in Syrian airspace.
But I doubt if Syria would not let them fly helo into Syria airspace or over Syrian waters for a pilot search.
But clearly the Turks lost a aircraft......
------ This thread is Archived ------
ttom500: A little more on the Turkish aircraft.
It was a F-4. They don't know it was shot down or had mechanical trouble. They are searching a area of the MED with vessels and helo......if so.....they think that the aircraft went down in international waters. That does not mean that a engagement did not occur in Syrian airspace.
But I doubt if Syria would not let them fly helo into Syria airspace or over Syrian waters for a pilot search.
But clearly the Turks lost a aircraft......
It was a F-4. They don't know it was shot down or had mechanical trouble. They are searching a area of the MED with vessels and helo......if so.....they think that the aircraft went down in international waters. That does not mean that a engagement did not occur in Syrian airspace.
But I doubt if Syria would not let them fly helo into Syria airspace or over Syrian waters for a pilot search.
But clearly the Turks lost a aircraft......
Hi TT,
Yes I have to admit it is a strange one for sure, In the past few minutes it just came over the ticker that the Turkish PM Erdagon (not sure of spelling) just said previous news reports are wrong, Syria has neither claimed to have hit the jet nor apologized..
Now they are saying that both Turkish and Syrian vessels and choppers are searching for the jet.
Who knows? Guess more information will come out later
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
Boban1: It has broke in the last hour That Syrian forces have shot down a Turkish fighter Jet over Syrian waters.
So why have they been over Syrian water???Relations between Ankara and Damascus have become marred by Turkey’s open support of the Syrian opposition, which is seeking to topple the government of President Bashar Al-Assad. On Friday, Turkey denied the Syrian government’s accusations that it is supplying rebels with arms.
Still, Turkey remains a NATO member, which means that in the event of an attack it could summon the aid of all the alliance members. In April, Turkey already called on NATO to protect its borders as cross-border fire from Syria hit a refugee camp on Turkish territory. These statements were condemned as “provocative” by Assad’s government.
International relations expert Mark Almond says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria’s capabilities.
“If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad’s regime, the first thing they’ll want to do is to knock out Syria’s air forces and defense systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria’s responses would be possible. But it is also possible this is a tragic mishap,” Almond told RT from Bilkent University in Ankara.
So why have they been over Syrian water???Relations between Ankara and Damascus have become marred by Turkey’s open support of the Syrian opposition, which is seeking to topple the government of President Bashar Al-Assad. On Friday, Turkey denied the Syrian government’s accusations that it is supplying rebels with arms.
Still, Turkey remains a NATO member, which means that in the event of an attack it could summon the aid of all the alliance members. In April, Turkey already called on NATO to protect its borders as cross-border fire from Syria hit a refugee camp on Turkish territory. These statements were condemned as “provocative” by Assad’s government.
International relations expert Mark Almond says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria’s capabilities.
“If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad’s regime, the first thing they’ll want to do is to knock out Syria’s air forces and defense systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria’s responses would be possible. But it is also possible this is a tragic mishap,” Almond told RT from Bilkent University in Ankara.
Yes there is something strange going on, First reports were on France24 news ticker and said that Syria had taken out a Turkish Jet over Syrian air space, Later one of the UK newspapers said Turkish PM had said that Syria had apologized?? Now latest is that Turkish PM said no media reports were true and both Turkish and Syrian vessels and choppers are searching Syrian waters for the pilots.
But there are also claims coming in that it was a Recon flight to find where Assad's surface to air weapons are..
I guess in time we will get the truth about it all!
------ This thread is Archived ------
Friday 23:30 hrs
Syrian Military confirm downing of Turkish Military jet over Syrian air space. Source Reuters News Agency.
ALSO
UK newspaper confirms that Saudi Arabia Paying wages to FSA Rebels Source Guardian
Syrian Military confirm downing of Turkish Military jet over Syrian air space. Source Reuters News Agency.
ALSO
UK newspaper confirms that Saudi Arabia Paying wages to FSA Rebels Source Guardian
------ This thread is Archived ------
Clearly the relationship between Turkey and Syria is on the rocks.
Once Assad and Erogan were close. But the relationship began to fray after the displaced Syrian Sunni began to come into Southern Turkey.
Erogan had asked for a route ...a no fire route into Syria and then into Turkey....that would let them come out safely. But Assad never agreed to it.
The Friday's shoot down of the Turkish F-4 only has to worsen the relationship. Now from Istanbul, we heard the following....'decisive action' to be taken. And the Turks also said the aircraft was downed by Syrian air defense. Seems the Turks had radar following the low flying F-4. Turkey did not say if they felt it was in Syrian airspace.....but that it was 'close to Syrian airspace.'
Regarding a NATO involvement here. Pretty sure Turkey can engage in a border nation war with out NATO involvement. The US went into Iraq, without NATO presence. If I remember the terms right, each nation state of NATO can conduct uni-latrol warfare. So if Turkey does need to take decisive action, it need not be with NATO along side.
Turkey now has 35,000 refugees from the Syrian conflict. Only last year, Syrian border forces fired across the border. If one remember how Turkey conducted the Kurdish refugees from Iraq. Well several times it entered into northern Iraq. Here Turkey almost invoked the NATO Chapter V when Syria fired on the Syrian refugee camp. That is were one NATO country can bring the entire NATO into a conflict.
It seems that America had stopped the Ergan government use of Chapter V and promised to protect Turkey from any backlash. If the Turks feel that the F-4 shot down was a blacklash attack by Syria....the US/Turkey relationship could be jeopdary. Erogan might ask Obama to back that promise up....
But (I think) the real pressure will be placed on the Erogan government from Turkish media. Here the pressure to remove Assad is the very strong. Even with a recent atrocity committed by a opposition group on some of Assad militia, the Sunni have strong support in Turkey.
Turkey is allowing Quatar and Suadi to arm the rebells inside the country. So its present side in this is clearly with the Sunni and rebells. It is not hard to vision, Turkey joining a Arab League coalition to take Syria and Assad on.
If that happens. Russia loses the Istanbul passage of its military ships in the Black Sea. Turkey will close the passage to them. This just might be the reason that the HIND carrying Russian freighter was taking the longer route thru the MED to reach Syria.
Ultimately for Assad's Syria, this might be the worse SAM launch of all time. If it brings Turkey into the Arab League coliliation. For Sunni Syria, this might be the best of SAM launches of all time. As Syria has a major army on its northern border to contend with.
Once Assad and Erogan were close. But the relationship began to fray after the displaced Syrian Sunni began to come into Southern Turkey.
Erogan had asked for a route ...a no fire route into Syria and then into Turkey....that would let them come out safely. But Assad never agreed to it.
The Friday's shoot down of the Turkish F-4 only has to worsen the relationship. Now from Istanbul, we heard the following....'decisive action' to be taken. And the Turks also said the aircraft was downed by Syrian air defense. Seems the Turks had radar following the low flying F-4. Turkey did not say if they felt it was in Syrian airspace.....but that it was 'close to Syrian airspace.'
Regarding a NATO involvement here. Pretty sure Turkey can engage in a border nation war with out NATO involvement. The US went into Iraq, without NATO presence. If I remember the terms right, each nation state of NATO can conduct uni-latrol warfare. So if Turkey does need to take decisive action, it need not be with NATO along side.
Turkey now has 35,000 refugees from the Syrian conflict. Only last year, Syrian border forces fired across the border. If one remember how Turkey conducted the Kurdish refugees from Iraq. Well several times it entered into northern Iraq. Here Turkey almost invoked the NATO Chapter V when Syria fired on the Syrian refugee camp. That is were one NATO country can bring the entire NATO into a conflict.
It seems that America had stopped the Ergan government use of Chapter V and promised to protect Turkey from any backlash. If the Turks feel that the F-4 shot down was a blacklash attack by Syria....the US/Turkey relationship could be jeopdary. Erogan might ask Obama to back that promise up....
But (I think) the real pressure will be placed on the Erogan government from Turkish media. Here the pressure to remove Assad is the very strong. Even with a recent atrocity committed by a opposition group on some of Assad militia, the Sunni have strong support in Turkey.
Turkey is allowing Quatar and Suadi to arm the rebells inside the country. So its present side in this is clearly with the Sunni and rebells. It is not hard to vision, Turkey joining a Arab League coalition to take Syria and Assad on.
If that happens. Russia loses the Istanbul passage of its military ships in the Black Sea. Turkey will close the passage to them. This just might be the reason that the HIND carrying Russian freighter was taking the longer route thru the MED to reach Syria.
Ultimately for Assad's Syria, this might be the worse SAM launch of all time. If it brings Turkey into the Arab League coliliation. For Sunni Syria, this might be the best of SAM launches of all time. As Syria has a major army on its northern border to contend with.
------ This thread is Archived ------
this could also fit in Ray`s thread "How fast is the national debt increasing"
------ This thread is Archived ------
Turkey just said 'the conclusion is that the F-4 was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from the Syria."
The F-4 was a reconn type Phantom.
Also in Syria.....large defections of Syrian troops is occurring. This was one of the heaviest weeks in 10 month rebellion deaths since the
it began. Monday 94, Tuesday 62, Wednesday 88, Thursday 168, Friday 116, and Saturday 116 were killed.
The Russian cargo ship with the HINDs returned to port in Murmansk. Murmansk is a major Russian military base. Here a unnamed Russian diplomat said....'the ship will soon attempted a return trip (to Syria) under the Russian flag'.
(para are mine)
Now the Russians are saying the M-25 HINDS on board were originally Syrian HINDs that had been sent to Russia for maintenance and they they HAVE to return them under the contract.
Seems that if the ship sails under Russia flag, the Russian feel it cannot be stopped and searched on the high seas. International maritime laws says that all commercial vessel will stop for a hail of a naval vessel of all countries and will permit a search of the said commercial vessel.
So Russia is using the HIND cargo ship to stir the pot more.
To summarize this last week.
We had a military aircraft shoot down in international airspace or Syrian airspace depending on your version of events.
We had a cargo vessel incident
We had a mounting death toll in Syria
We had a large defections in the Syrian military
We had President Putin looking like he had eaten bad oysters in a attempted to ignore President Obama at the Mexican G-20 summit
We have 1.5m displaced Syrian (but no ethnic cleansing is occurring)
We have the Moscow Iran nuc conference breakdown made page 30 news
We have the UN Peace Keeper ending their patrols
Also Assad disbanded his government and is forming another. Likely with more Alawite military in it.
and finally in Brazil
Amhmenajada says Iran has a right to enrich uranium........
That is quiet a week.......I wonder what Assad/Putin/Amhmenajada have in store for the world next week
news.yahoo.com/assad-forms-cabinet-violence-flares-Syria-053449786.html
The F-4 was a reconn type Phantom.
Also in Syria.....large defections of Syrian troops is occurring. This was one of the heaviest weeks in 10 month rebellion deaths since the
it began. Monday 94, Tuesday 62, Wednesday 88, Thursday 168, Friday 116, and Saturday 116 were killed.
The Russian cargo ship with the HINDs returned to port in Murmansk. Murmansk is a major Russian military base. Here a unnamed Russian diplomat said....'the ship will soon attempted a return trip (to Syria) under the Russian flag'.
(para are mine)
Now the Russians are saying the M-25 HINDS on board were originally Syrian HINDs that had been sent to Russia for maintenance and they they HAVE to return them under the contract.
Seems that if the ship sails under Russia flag, the Russian feel it cannot be stopped and searched on the high seas. International maritime laws says that all commercial vessel will stop for a hail of a naval vessel of all countries and will permit a search of the said commercial vessel.
So Russia is using the HIND cargo ship to stir the pot more.
To summarize this last week.
We had a military aircraft shoot down in international airspace or Syrian airspace depending on your version of events.
We had a cargo vessel incident
We had a mounting death toll in Syria
We had a large defections in the Syrian military
We had President Putin looking like he had eaten bad oysters in a attempted to ignore President Obama at the Mexican G-20 summit
We have 1.5m displaced Syrian (but no ethnic cleansing is occurring)
We have the Moscow Iran nuc conference breakdown made page 30 news
We have the UN Peace Keeper ending their patrols
Also Assad disbanded his government and is forming another. Likely with more Alawite military in it.
and finally in Brazil
Amhmenajada says Iran has a right to enrich uranium........
That is quiet a week.......I wonder what Assad/Putin/Amhmenajada have in store for the world next week
news.yahoo.com/assad-forms-cabinet-violence-flares-Syria-053449786.html
------ This thread is Archived ------
Hi TT,
I think it's going a little far to say Turkey might use this incident, to in some way get the US involved in direct confrontation with Syria.
Mainly, because under International Law, Syria has done nothing but defend her own Air space from a military jet flying below radar at high speed.
I don't know much about Turkish media if I am honest, however regardless of whatever pressure they can put on the Government, the fact is and still remains to be that Syria is entitled to protect her own Air space, as indeed is the US, UK, Russia etc. So regardless of media pressure, Turkey would be foolish to say the very least, to use this incident as an excuse for war.
Now is it possible that Turkey might join their fellow supporters of the Rebels /Al Qaeda, to act against Syria? Yes I believe so, and in fact that is a choice I believe the US and others would be more than happy to agree with.
As far as Russia is concerned, Clinton claimed that they were supplying choppers, then the Government said it was a misunderstanding the following day. The vessel alleged to be heading to Syria, was not a Russian military vessel, but a company owned vessel that had chopper parts and chopper repaired parts on board, they were completing a contract from 2008.
Who knows what will happen, the problem with Gang / Mob attack is that each member of the mob/Gang is aware of the fact, that one day the mob will turn on them in a similar way..
Kind Regards
I think it's going a little far to say Turkey might use this incident, to in some way get the US involved in direct confrontation with Syria.
Mainly, because under International Law, Syria has done nothing but defend her own Air space from a military jet flying below radar at high speed.
I don't know much about Turkish media if I am honest, however regardless of whatever pressure they can put on the Government, the fact is and still remains to be that Syria is entitled to protect her own Air space, as indeed is the US, UK, Russia etc. So regardless of media pressure, Turkey would be foolish to say the very least, to use this incident as an excuse for war.
Now is it possible that Turkey might join their fellow supporters of the Rebels /Al Qaeda, to act against Syria? Yes I believe so, and in fact that is a choice I believe the US and others would be more than happy to agree with.
As far as Russia is concerned, Clinton claimed that they were supplying choppers, then the Government said it was a misunderstanding the following day. The vessel alleged to be heading to Syria, was not a Russian military vessel, but a company owned vessel that had chopper parts and chopper repaired parts on board, they were completing a contract from 2008.
Who knows what will happen, the problem with Gang / Mob attack is that each member of the mob/Gang is aware of the fact, that one day the mob will turn on them in a similar way..
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
Hi Boban,
Indeed it would fit with Ray's thread. Excellent vid, such a pity Ron Paul is a lone voice in a town of Cowboys all ready to use their weapons.
However, sadly the voice of reason has always been a weak voice against those who profit most from death a destruction.
Kind Regards
Boban1: this could also fit in Ray`s thread "How fast is the national debt increasing"
Indeed it would fit with Ray's thread. Excellent vid, such a pity Ron Paul is a lone voice in a town of Cowboys all ready to use their weapons.
However, sadly the voice of reason has always been a weak voice against those who profit most from death a destruction.
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
Hi Boban,
Indeed it would fit with Ray's thread. Excellent vid, such a pity Ron Paul is a lone voice in a town of Cowboys all ready to use their weapons.
However, sadly the voice of reason has always been a weak voice against those who profit most from death a destruction.
Kind Regards
Boban1: this could also fit in Ray`s thread "How fast is the national debt increasing"
Indeed it would fit with Ray's thread. Excellent vid, such a pity Ron Paul is a lone voice in a town of Cowboys all ready to use their weapons.
However, sadly the voice of reason has always been a weak voice against those who profit most from death a destruction.
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
ttom500: Turkey just said 'the conclusion is that the F-4 was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from the Syria."
The F-4 was a reconn type Phantom.
The F-4 was a reconn type Phantom.
Hmm, You left out the fact that it was flying under radar at high speed and Syria have it on radar report (not entering) but within Syrian Air space.
ttom500:
Also in Syria.....large defections of Syrian troops is occurring. This was one of the heaviest weeks in 10 month rebellion deaths since the
it began. Monday 94, Tuesday 62, Wednesday 88, Thursday 168, Friday 116, and Saturday 116 were killed.
Also in Syria.....large defections of Syrian troops is occurring. This was one of the heaviest weeks in 10 month rebellion deaths since the
it began. Monday 94, Tuesday 62, Wednesday 88, Thursday 168, Friday 116, and Saturday 116 were killed.
I am only aware of five defections, 4 brothers (no surprise there) and one pilot.. Now if it were a full unit of Syrian soldiers that would be a concern.
ttom500:
The Russian cargo ship with the HINDs returned to port in Murmansk. Murmansk is a major Russian military base. Here a unnamed Russian diplomat said....'the ship will soon attempted a return trip (to Syria) under the Russian flag'.
(para are mine)
Now the Russians are saying the M-25 HINDS on board were originally Syrian HINDs that had been sent to Russia for maintenance and they they HAVE to return them under the contract.
Seems that if the ship sails under Russia flag, the Russian feel it cannot be stopped and searched on the high seas. International maritime laws says that all commercial vessel will stop for a hail of a naval vessel of all countries and will permit a search of the said commercial vessel.
The Russian cargo ship with the HINDs returned to port in Murmansk. Murmansk is a major Russian military base. Here a unnamed Russian diplomat said....'the ship will soon attempted a return trip (to Syria) under the Russian flag'.
(para are mine)
Now the Russians are saying the M-25 HINDS on board were originally Syrian HINDs that had been sent to Russia for maintenance and they they HAVE to return them under the contract.
Seems that if the ship sails under Russia flag, the Russian feel it cannot be stopped and searched on the high seas. International maritime laws says that all commercial vessel will stop for a hail of a naval vessel of all countries and will permit a search of the said commercial vessel.
Within the waters of said country, anyway what is the difference between supplying contracted parts to Syria, that in fact would take weeks / Months to assemble and use. And the US and her allies arming the Bahrain regime against it's own people?
ttom500:
So Russia is using the HIND cargo ship to stir the pot more.
So Russia is using the HIND cargo ship to stir the pot more.
And the US is assisting Qatar and Saudi Arabia /Turkey to supply arms to Al Qaeda and Rebels within Syria. There are many pot in this my friend.
ttom500:
To summarize this last week.
We had a military aircraft shoot down in international airspace or Syrian airspace depending on your version of events.
We had a cargo vessel incident
We had a mounting death toll in Syria
We had a large defections in the Syrian military
We had President Putin looking like he had eaten bad oysters in a attempted to ignore President Obama at the Mexican G-20 summit
We have 1.5m displaced Syrian (but no ethnic cleansing is occurring)
We have the Moscow Iran nuc conference breakdown made page 30 news
We have the UN Peace Keeper ending their patrols
Also Assad disbanded his government and is forming another. Likely with more Alawite military in it.
and finally in Brazil
Amhmenajada says Iran has a right to enrich uranium........
That is quiet a week.......I wonder what Assad/Putin/Amhmenajada have in store for the world next week
news.yahoo.com/assad-forms-cabinet-violence-flares-Syria-053449786.html
To summarize this last week.
We had a military aircraft shoot down in international airspace or Syrian airspace depending on your version of events.
We had a cargo vessel incident
We had a mounting death toll in Syria
We had a large defections in the Syrian military
We had President Putin looking like he had eaten bad oysters in a attempted to ignore President Obama at the Mexican G-20 summit
We have 1.5m displaced Syrian (but no ethnic cleansing is occurring)
We have the Moscow Iran nuc conference breakdown made page 30 news
We have the UN Peace Keeper ending their patrols
Also Assad disbanded his government and is forming another. Likely with more Alawite military in it.
and finally in Brazil
Amhmenajada says Iran has a right to enrich uranium........
That is quiet a week.......I wonder what Assad/Putin/Amhmenajada have in store for the world next week
news.yahoo.com/assad-forms-cabinet-violence-flares-Syria-053449786.html
Mounting death toll that the Rebels,Al Qaeda,the US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have EQUAL responsibility for along with the Syrian regime, of that there now is NO doubt.
Large defections, 4 Brothers and a Pilot!!
1.5 million displaced by the actions of ALL mentioned above...
All countries have the right to peaceful nuke abilities, apart from Iran, IT appears...
I am sure those you mention are asking the same question of US,Turkey,Saudi, Qatar etc, etc, etc.
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
Iseek: Hmm, You left out the fact that it was flying under radar at high speed and Syria have it on radar report (not entering) but within Syrian Air space.I am only aware of five defections, 4 brothers (no surprise there) and one pilot.. Now if it were a full unit of Syrian soldiers that would be a concern. Within the waters of said country, anyway what is the difference between supplying contracted parts to Syria, that in fact would take weeks / Months to assemble and use. And the US and her allies arming the Bahrain regime against it's own people?And the US is assisting Qatar and Saudi Arabia /Turkey to supply arms to Al Qaeda and Rebels within Syria. There are many pot in this my friend.
Mounting death toll that the Rebels,Al Qaeda,the US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have EQUAL responsibility for along with the Syrian regime, of that there now is NO doubt.
Large defections, 4 Brothers and a Pilot!!
1.5 million displaced by the actions of ALL mentioned above...
All countries have the right to peaceful nuke abilities, apart from Iran, IT appears...
I am sure those you mention are asking the same question of US,Turkey,Saudi, Qatar etc, etc, etc.
Kind Regards
Mounting death toll that the Rebels,Al Qaeda,the US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have EQUAL responsibility for along with the Syrian regime, of that there now is NO doubt.
Large defections, 4 Brothers and a Pilot!!
1.5 million displaced by the actions of ALL mentioned above...
All countries have the right to peaceful nuke abilities, apart from Iran, IT appears...
I am sure those you mention are asking the same question of US,Turkey,Saudi, Qatar etc, etc, etc.
Kind Regards
The defection was most of a entire Syrian artillery unit. Likely around 400 men.As it was reported in the article. The unit has been engaging a Syrian town....when engaged by the rebells.....switched sides and I quote...."Taking with them many heavy weapons"
------ This thread is Archived ------
Turkey says that they found the F-4 wreckage offshore at a depth of 3200. That the shot down occur 1 mile outside of Syrian airspace. The pilots have yet to be found. Turkey says the F-4 was on a training flight. That it had wandered into Syrian airspace. But when Turkish ground controller advised that it had.....it then turned to international air space over the Med.
This makes sense. With the F-4 turned away from mainland Syria....a heat seeking SAM would have a great thermal image to acquire. And the Turkish pilots would not have the launch on their nose radar. All they would get is the lock on warning. Kind of a last moment warning signal.
So we have very conflicting stories here on the F-4.
The Syrians say it was very low and over a Syrian coastal town of Latakia. If that is the case, it would likely be under Turkish radars. And likely out of communications with the Turkish controllers. They give a Latakia eyewitness to this. But this happened at night. On a F-4....with military camo....am saying that is questionable siting. It could easily be a MIG scrambling to make a intercept.
So if the Turks have a F-4 pilot recorded voice to prove the aircraft was high enough to be on their radars and they have recorded radars
tracks of the F-4.....I say the F-4 was likely in international airspace.
Turkey is requesting a meeting of NATO. Sounds like a Chapter V meeting. But article was unclear here. Turkey will likely give the evidence of pilot voice and radar tracks at the NATO hearing.
I would, if they were avialable.....
This makes sense. With the F-4 turned away from mainland Syria....a heat seeking SAM would have a great thermal image to acquire. And the Turkish pilots would not have the launch on their nose radar. All they would get is the lock on warning. Kind of a last moment warning signal.
So we have very conflicting stories here on the F-4.
The Syrians say it was very low and over a Syrian coastal town of Latakia. If that is the case, it would likely be under Turkish radars. And likely out of communications with the Turkish controllers. They give a Latakia eyewitness to this. But this happened at night. On a F-4....with military camo....am saying that is questionable siting. It could easily be a MIG scrambling to make a intercept.
So if the Turks have a F-4 pilot recorded voice to prove the aircraft was high enough to be on their radars and they have recorded radars
tracks of the F-4.....I say the F-4 was likely in international airspace.
Turkey is requesting a meeting of NATO. Sounds like a Chapter V meeting. But article was unclear here. Turkey will likely give the evidence of pilot voice and radar tracks at the NATO hearing.
I would, if they were avialable.....
------ This thread is Archived ------
Hi TT,
Sorry TT, I was not aware, couldn't get your link to work.
WOW, didn't know a unit had changed sides..
Kind Regards
ttom500: The defection was most of a entire Syrian artillery unit. Likely around 400 men.As it was reported in the article. The unit has been engaging a Syrian town....when engaged by the rebells.....switched sides and I quote...."Taking with them many heavy weapons"
Sorry TT, I was not aware, couldn't get your link to work.
WOW, didn't know a unit had changed sides..
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
ttom500: Turkey says that they found the F-4 wreckage offshore at a depth of 3200. That the shot down occur 1 mile outside of Syrian airspace. The pilots have yet to be found. Turkey says the F-4 was on a training flight. That it had wandered into Syrian airspace. But when Turkish ground controller advised that it had.....it then turned to international air space over the Med.
Possibly, who knows really, lets be honest TT, you can bet the Syrian regime are nervous as hell when it come to aircraft over or near their air space! So could have been an over reaction.. Who knows.
ttom500:
This makes sense. With the F-4 turned away from mainland Syria....a heat seeking SAM would have a great thermal image to acquire. And the Turkish pilots would not have the launch on their nose radar. All they would get is the lock on warning. Kind of a last moment warning signal.
So we have very conflicting stories here on the F-4.
This makes sense. With the F-4 turned away from mainland Syria....a heat seeking SAM would have a great thermal image to acquire. And the Turkish pilots would not have the launch on their nose radar. All they would get is the lock on warning. Kind of a last moment warning signal.
So we have very conflicting stories here on the F-4.
For sure, I agree, most media this side France24, BBC, Sky News can't even agree with each other as to what might have happened..
ttom500:
The Syrians say it was very low and over a Syrian coastal town of Latakia. If that is the case, it would likely be under Turkish radars. And likely out of communications with the Turkish controllers. They give a Latakia eyewitness to this. But this happened at night. On a F-4....with military camo....am saying that is questionable siting. It could easily be a MIG scrambling to make a intercept.
The Syrians say it was very low and over a Syrian coastal town of Latakia. If that is the case, it would likely be under Turkish radars. And likely out of communications with the Turkish controllers. They give a Latakia eyewitness to this. But this happened at night. On a F-4....with military camo....am saying that is questionable siting. It could easily be a MIG scrambling to make a intercept.
Again I can only agree TT, I have read several witness sightings on the wires about Latakia, however as you rightly say could have been a Mig..
ttom500:
So if the Turks have a F-4 pilot recorded voice to prove the aircraft was high enough to be on their radars and they have recorded radars
tracks of the F-4.....I say the F-4 was likely in international airspace.
So if the Turks have a F-4 pilot recorded voice to prove the aircraft was high enough to be on their radars and they have recorded radars
tracks of the F-4.....I say the F-4 was likely in international airspace.
Yep, that is the big question, one says the jet was very low and mostly below radar, other says always on radar, guess only time will tell.
ttom500:
Turkey is requesting a meeting of NATO. Sounds like a Chapter V meeting. But article was unclear here. Turkey will likely give the evidence of pilot voice and radar tracks at the NATO hearing.
I would, if they were avialable.....
Turkey is requesting a meeting of NATO. Sounds like a Chapter V meeting. But article was unclear here. Turkey will likely give the evidence of pilot voice and radar tracks at the NATO hearing.
I would, if they were avialable.....
Exactly, that would clear up any doubts about this situation, either way. And for once stop the annoying and mostly inaccurate media statements / Claims.
Kind Regards
------ This thread is Archived ------
Turkey calls on NATO over Syria’s downing of ‘unarmed test jet’
This appears to me as very convenient for NATO to circumvent the UNSC and have an excuse to accelerate a strike on Syria.
This appears to me as very convenient for NATO to circumvent the UNSC and have an excuse to accelerate a strike on Syria.
------ This thread is Archived ------
This Thread is Archived
This Thread is archived, so you will no longer be able to post to it. Threads get archived automatically when they are older than 3 months.
« Go back to All Threads
« Go back to All Threads
More Threads
s*xual skills
Ladies
More Proof The GOP is a Criminal Organization
Democrats destroyed America
your favorite topic?
men's perspective towards women
Unions support Democrats!
Would you hire this guy - for any job?
wanting beyond need
The GOP Representatives owned by Vladimir Putin
More Threads
Report threads that break rules, are offensive, or contain fighting. Staff may not be aware of the forum abuse, and cannot do anything about it unless you tell us about it. click to report forum abuse »
If one of the comments is offensive, please report the comment instead (there is a link in each comment to report it).
If one of the comments is offensive, please report the comment instead (there is a link in each comment to report it).
Although there has not as yet been a full statement from the Syrian Regime, The Turkish PM, after some persuasion finally admitted that the Jet was shot down over Syrian waters, then about 1/2 hour later the Turkish PM released a second statement saying that the Syrian regime had apologized.