Why Not fully back Kofi Annan and give peace a chance in Syria (411)
Possibly, who knows really, lets be honest TT, you can bet the Syrian regime are nervous as hell when it come to aircraft over or near their air space! So could have been an over reaction.. Who knows.For sure, I agree, most media this side France24, BBC, Sky News can't even agree with each other as to what might have happened..Again I can only agree TT, I have read several witness sightings on the wires about Latakia, however as you rightly say could have been a Mig..Yep, that is the big question, one says the jet was very low and mostly below radar, other says always on radar, guess only time will tell.
Exactly, that would clear up any doubts about this situation, either way. And for once stop the annoying and mostly inaccurate media statements / Claims.
Why would the Sryian be worried about a aircraft? The rebells don't use aircraft. Heck they are lucky enough to have hand guns....much less a high speed mach 2 F-4. Clearly the Syrians knew that this was a non hostile military aircraft. (Is there such a thing?)..))
Syria has kept its airports open during the rebell up rising. You want a commercial air carrier being knocked down by some cowboy Syrian SAM
Captain?
Assad has lost control of his forces. This shot down proves it. No one from Damascus is saying that they OK the launch of a SAM. The atrocities are another example of Assad losing control of his forces.
He send them on a mission....and it turns into a blood bath of dead women and children.
Assad bringing in the Russians and Iranians is a further decay of his command and control. He let Iranians lead some of his Alawite units. He lets the Russians act independently. Both bring confusion to the command and control of a military.
Here is my take on the shot down.
Syrian radar has seen the Turkish Air Force fly this training mission many times. Believe it or not, there is only so many area for training missions. So they have seen it in the past. Likely many times.
This time.....say it does stray to close to Syrian airspace and came inside.....why does the SAM site have a launch order?...launch orders can be done by a standing order or by a confirmed order......when in the past....likely seen the same thing has happened? This time the Turks have been arming the rebells and the Turks have become very critical of the Assad regime. Assad gave a standing order earlier to launch.
So?
Scratch one Turkish F-4 and crew.
Turkey has 116 stealthy Lockheed F-35 on order. Delivery starts this year. Me thinks that the next time, the Turks fly this mission....the Syrians will not even know it is there.
Exactly, that would clear up any doubts about this situation, either way. And for once stop the annoying and mostly inaccurate media statements / Claims.
Why would the Sryian be worried about a aircraft? The rebells don't use aircraft. Heck they are lucky enough to have hand guns....much less a high speed mach 2 F-4. Clearly the Syrians knew that this was a non hostile military aircraft. (Is there such a thing?)..))
Syria has kept its airports open during the rebell up rising. You want a commercial air carrier being knocked down by some cowboy Syrian SAM
Captain?
Assad has lost control of his forces. This shot down proves it. No one from Damascus is saying that they OK the launch of a SAM. The atrocities are another example of Assad losing control of his forces.
He send them on a mission....and it turns into a blood bath of dead women and children.
Assad bringing in the Russians and Iranians is a further decay of his command and control. He let Iranians lead some of his Alawite units. He lets the Russians act independently. Both bring confusion to the command and control of a military.
Here is my take on the shot down.
Syrian radar has seen the Turkish Air Force fly this training mission many times. Believe it or not, there is only so many area for training missions. So they have seen it in the past. Likely many times.
This time.....say it does stray to close to Syrian airspace and came inside.....why does the SAM site have a launch order?...launch orders can be done by a standing order or by a confirmed order......when in the past....likely seen the same thing has happened? This time the Turks have been arming the rebells and the Turks have become very critical of the Assad regime. Assad gave a standing order earlier to launch.
So?
Scratch one Turkish F-4 and crew.
Turkey has 116 stealthy Lockheed F-35 on order. Delivery starts this year. Me thinks that the next time, the Turks fly this mission....the Syrians will not even know it is there.
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ttom500: Turkey says that they found the F-4 wreckage offshore at a depth of 3200. That the shot down occur 1 mile outside of Syrian airspace. The pilots have yet to be found. Turkey says the F-4 was on a training flight. That it had wandered into Syrian airspace. But when Turkish ground controller advised that it had.....it then turned to international air space over the Med.
This makes sense. With the F-4 turned away from mainland Syria....a heat seeking SAM would have a great thermal image to acquire. And the Turkish pilots would not have the launch on their nose radar. All they would get is the lock on warning. Kind of a last moment warning signal.
So we have very conflicting stories here on the F-4.
The Syrians say it was very low and over a Syrian coastal town of Latakia. If that is the case, it would likely be under Turkish radars. And likely out of communications with the Turkish controllers. They give a Latakia eyewitness to this. But this happened at night. On a F-4....with military camo....am saying that is questionable siting. It could easily be a MIG scrambling to make a intercept.
So if the Turks have a F-4 pilot recorded voice to prove the aircraft was high enough to be on their radars and they have recorded radars
tracks of the F-4.....I say the F-4 was likely in international airspace.
Turkey is requesting a meeting of NATO. Sounds like a Chapter V meeting. But article was unclear here. Turkey will likely give the evidence of pilot voice and radar tracks at the NATO hearing.
I would, if they were avialable.....
This makes sense. With the F-4 turned away from mainland Syria....a heat seeking SAM would have a great thermal image to acquire. And the Turkish pilots would not have the launch on their nose radar. All they would get is the lock on warning. Kind of a last moment warning signal.
So we have very conflicting stories here on the F-4.
The Syrians say it was very low and over a Syrian coastal town of Latakia. If that is the case, it would likely be under Turkish radars. And likely out of communications with the Turkish controllers. They give a Latakia eyewitness to this. But this happened at night. On a F-4....with military camo....am saying that is questionable siting. It could easily be a MIG scrambling to make a intercept.
So if the Turks have a F-4 pilot recorded voice to prove the aircraft was high enough to be on their radars and they have recorded radars
tracks of the F-4.....I say the F-4 was likely in international airspace.
Turkey is requesting a meeting of NATO. Sounds like a Chapter V meeting. But article was unclear here. Turkey will likely give the evidence of pilot voice and radar tracks at the NATO hearing.
I would, if they were avialable.....
actually a CNN report mentioned that the Turks had alerted the craft that they were in Syrian airspace ....and to retreat from that just before the attack. And there were no warning shots fired.
Turkish opposition to Assad has to do with his brutal treatment of Syrian people - IDK how anyone could support that
there was also a CNN report that there is an "assumption" that some units of the Syrian Army - soldiers in the lower ranks were purposely missing targets in opposition to their own gov't - but I have not seen this as anything but supposition
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Iseek: And the US is assisting Qatar and Saudi Arabia /Turkey to supply arms to Al Qaeda and Rebels within Syria. There are many pot in this my friend.
That's not entirely accurate is it?
The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.
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Hi TT,
Come on TT, the wolves are at Syria’s door, baying for blood.. Rebels have some of the most modern weapons available (I said some), and have had for quite a while as the Arab league Monitors report showed. Weapons from Libya, Al Qaeda, Not to even mention those brought across the border from Saudi, Qatar..
TT, you and I are a little old to be playing possum with each other, and we both know it’s NOT that unusual. Think North/South Korea for example.. ATROCITIES ??? Come on TT, don’t lose sight of the subject Brother (dead women & Children) REALLY??
TT, YOU are getting carried away again! Iranian commanders of Alawite units….. PLEASE!!!!
Possibly, it was the Norm, You could be spot on TT, Maybe Turkish Military Jets have flown regular sorties / training flights for years in this area.. Now TT, I know how intelligent you are and I have come to understand your military knowledge also..
You telling me, that if regular sorties / training missions were flown NEAR the coast of Florida (for Example) , by Mexican Air force (Just for argument sake). Now these flights went on for many years.. However Mexican President along with all South American countries began arming Cuban militants and Rebels in the US,YOU TRYING, to tell me that if an incursion happened (over US ) you wouldn’t be slightly worried that these people might be either on a Recon mission or planning an attack….. Come On TT… You going to wave at them or take action??
I think it’s a terrible thing when lives are lost, especially when it could have been avoided, However if anything came out of this, It is that Syria is able to both track Low flying craft (Under Radar) and react. Volume makes no difference TT, as you well know.
Kind Regards
ttom500:
Why would the Sryian be worried about a aircraft? The rebells don't use aircraft. Heck they are lucky enough to have hand guns....much less a high speed mach 2 F-4. Clearly the Syrians knew that this was a non hostile military aircraft. (Is there such a thing?)..))
Syria has kept its airports open during the rebell up rising. You want a commercial air carrier being knocked down by some cowboy Syrian SAM
Captain?
Why would the Sryian be worried about a aircraft? The rebells don't use aircraft. Heck they are lucky enough to have hand guns....much less a high speed mach 2 F-4. Clearly the Syrians knew that this was a non hostile military aircraft. (Is there such a thing?)..))
Syria has kept its airports open during the rebell up rising. You want a commercial air carrier being knocked down by some cowboy Syrian SAM
Captain?
Come on TT, the wolves are at Syria’s door, baying for blood.. Rebels have some of the most modern weapons available (I said some), and have had for quite a while as the Arab league Monitors report showed. Weapons from Libya, Al Qaeda, Not to even mention those brought across the border from Saudi, Qatar..
ttom500:
Assad has lost control of his forces. This shot down proves it. No one from Damascus is saying that they OK the launch of a SAM. The atrocities are another example of Assad losing control of his forces.
He send them on a mission....and it turns into a blood bath of dead women and children.
Assad has lost control of his forces. This shot down proves it. No one from Damascus is saying that they OK the launch of a SAM. The atrocities are another example of Assad losing control of his forces.
He send them on a mission....and it turns into a blood bath of dead women and children.
TT, you and I are a little old to be playing possum with each other, and we both know it’s NOT that unusual. Think North/South Korea for example.. ATROCITIES ??? Come on TT, don’t lose sight of the subject Brother (dead women & Children) REALLY??
ttom500:
Assad bringing in the Russians and Iranians is a further decay of his command and control. He let Iranians lead some of his Alawite units. He lets the Russians act independently. Both bring confusion to the command and control of a military.
Assad bringing in the Russians and Iranians is a further decay of his command and control. He let Iranians lead some of his Alawite units. He lets the Russians act independently. Both bring confusion to the command and control of a military.
TT, YOU are getting carried away again! Iranian commanders of Alawite units….. PLEASE!!!!
ttom500:
Here is my take on the shot down.
Syrian radar has seen the Turkish Air Force fly this training mission many times. Believe it or not, there is only so many area for training missions. So they have seen it in the past. Likely many times.
This time.....say it does stray to close to Syrian airspace and came inside.....why does the SAM site have a launch order?...launch orders can be done by a standing order or by a confirmed order......when in the past....likely seen the same thing has happened? This time the Turks have been arming the rebells and the Turks have become very critical of the Assad regime. Assad gave a standing order earlier to launch.
Here is my take on the shot down.
Syrian radar has seen the Turkish Air Force fly this training mission many times. Believe it or not, there is only so many area for training missions. So they have seen it in the past. Likely many times.
This time.....say it does stray to close to Syrian airspace and came inside.....why does the SAM site have a launch order?...launch orders can be done by a standing order or by a confirmed order......when in the past....likely seen the same thing has happened? This time the Turks have been arming the rebells and the Turks have become very critical of the Assad regime. Assad gave a standing order earlier to launch.
Possibly, it was the Norm, You could be spot on TT, Maybe Turkish Military Jets have flown regular sorties / training flights for years in this area.. Now TT, I know how intelligent you are and I have come to understand your military knowledge also..
You telling me, that if regular sorties / training missions were flown NEAR the coast of Florida (for Example) , by Mexican Air force (Just for argument sake). Now these flights went on for many years.. However Mexican President along with all South American countries began arming Cuban militants and Rebels in the US,YOU TRYING, to tell me that if an incursion happened (over US ) you wouldn’t be slightly worried that these people might be either on a Recon mission or planning an attack….. Come On TT… You going to wave at them or take action??
ttom500:
So?
Scratch one Turkish F-4 and crew.
Turkey has 116 stealthy Lockheed F-35 on order. Delivery starts this year. Me thinks that the next time, the Turks fly this mission....the Syrians will not even know it is there.
So?
Scratch one Turkish F-4 and crew.
Turkey has 116 stealthy Lockheed F-35 on order. Delivery starts this year. Me thinks that the next time, the Turks fly this mission....the Syrians will not even know it is there.
I think it’s a terrible thing when lives are lost, especially when it could have been avoided, However if anything came out of this, It is that Syria is able to both track Low flying craft (Under Radar) and react. Volume makes no difference TT, as you well know.
Kind Regards
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Hi YTB,
Isn’t It !
Or are we talking opinion here ?,
I mean won’t those same weapons kill innocent civilians and children etc?, and isn’t it the responsibility of ALL involved to ensure or at least TRY to find a peaceful solution. If so wouldn’t it be better if they actually stopped their allies providing said arms?.
Finally, does anybody really believe that these arms won’t be handed to Al Qaeda by the Rebels? In order to further their cause..
There are no Gentlemen’s agreements in times of conflict..
Kind Regards
youretheboss: That's not entirely accurate is it?
The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.
The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.
Isn’t It !
Or are we talking opinion here ?,
I mean won’t those same weapons kill innocent civilians and children etc?, and isn’t it the responsibility of ALL involved to ensure or at least TRY to find a peaceful solution. If so wouldn’t it be better if they actually stopped their allies providing said arms?.
Finally, does anybody really believe that these arms won’t be handed to Al Qaeda by the Rebels? In order to further their cause..
There are no Gentlemen’s agreements in times of conflict..
Kind Regards
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And in the light of the latest developments in Egypt, there is the next boiling pot.
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gussi: And in the light of the latest developments in Egypt, there is the next boiling pot.
Hi Gussi,
And in the light of the latest developments in Egypt, there is the next boiling pot. (/quote)
Yes, of course you are right, this possibility of an attack on Syria, has far reaching consequences as the M.E. is not stable by any means. Not that it has ever been that stable, however it’s one big tinder box in the making.
God only know what is going to happen in Egypt, SCAF have control and the President is only President in name. Having said that though, who would have thought just five years ago, that there would be a Muslim Brotherhood member as President of Egypt ?
Kind Regards
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Latest report from Aljazeera / France 24
A Syrian Brigadier General and three (or 7 depending on news channel) other officers plus an estimated 33 soldiers have fled to Turkey although the Aljazeera reporter said not yet confirmed.
Re: The downed Syrian Jet, Syrian top official said in a statement that the jet was not taken out by Missile as had been reported by Turkey, but instead by anti-air craft (guns) Fire. He also stated this was a direct result of the jet flying below radar and within Syrian air space.
The Syrian Representative also said that during the search for the pilots, along with Turkish search a rescue, Syrian rescue had personally handed over parts of the wreckage to Turkish Government yesterday.
France24, BBC and others are reporting that the EU are imposing severe sanction on Syria, The German Foreign Minister said in a statement, that they were prepared to use only non-military options to seek an end to the Syrian conflict.
Australia has decided to impose its own sanctions on Syria, although they are considered to be only symbolic sanctions as Australia is in no way a major trader with Syria. However, this is considered to be a possible signal to others to impose sanctions against Syria, as Australia was the first country to expel Syrian diplomats.
France24, Debating why Turkey had gone to NATO with the latest incident, instead of taking direct action against Syria. Made the suggestion that Turkish representatives had stated, that Turkey was very wary of direct action, because the result might be an increase in attacks on Turkey by Armenian and Kurdish factions.
A Syrian Brigadier General and three (or 7 depending on news channel) other officers plus an estimated 33 soldiers have fled to Turkey although the Aljazeera reporter said not yet confirmed.
Re: The downed Syrian Jet, Syrian top official said in a statement that the jet was not taken out by Missile as had been reported by Turkey, but instead by anti-air craft (guns) Fire. He also stated this was a direct result of the jet flying below radar and within Syrian air space.
The Syrian Representative also said that during the search for the pilots, along with Turkish search a rescue, Syrian rescue had personally handed over parts of the wreckage to Turkish Government yesterday.
France24, BBC and others are reporting that the EU are imposing severe sanction on Syria, The German Foreign Minister said in a statement, that they were prepared to use only non-military options to seek an end to the Syrian conflict.
Australia has decided to impose its own sanctions on Syria, although they are considered to be only symbolic sanctions as Australia is in no way a major trader with Syria. However, this is considered to be a possible signal to others to impose sanctions against Syria, as Australia was the first country to expel Syrian diplomats.
France24, Debating why Turkey had gone to NATO with the latest incident, instead of taking direct action against Syria. Made the suggestion that Turkish representatives had stated, that Turkey was very wary of direct action, because the result might be an increase in attacks on Turkey by Armenian and Kurdish factions.
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Iseek: Hi YTB,
Isn’t It !
Or are we talking opinion here ?,
Finally, does anybody really believe that these arms won’t be handed to Al Qaeda by the Rebels? In order to further their cause..
Isn’t It !
Or are we talking opinion here ?,
Finally, does anybody really believe that these arms won’t be handed to Al Qaeda by the Rebels? In order to further their cause..
I see, so, it's your opinion, based on the facts? Are you sure you're not being prejudiced?
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youretheboss: I see, so, it's your opinion, based on the facts? Are you sure you're not being prejudiced?
Hi again YTB,
No just common sense, Yep, fact is weapons are already being traded by SFA and Al Qaeda, and those the Rebels are forcing to fight the Syrian Army (civilians).
It’s all over news channels, except those who use YouTube videos as news and “rebels said” as source..
Absolutely yes, 100% prejudiced , If you mean where innocent civilians are being killed by Assad forces and the FSA (so called) assisted by Al Qaeda.. Yep, prejudiced for sure..
Kind Regards
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Iseek: Hi again YTB, No just common sense, Yep, fact is weapons are already being traded by SFA and Al Qaeda, and those the Rebels are forcing to fight the Syrian Army (civilians).
It’s all over news channels, except those who use YouTube videos as news and “rebels said” as source..
Absolutely yes, 100% prejudiced , If you mean where innocent civilians are being killed by Assad forces and the FSA (so called) assisted by Al Qaeda.. Yep, prejudiced for sure..Kind Regards
It’s all over news channels, except those who use YouTube videos as news and “rebels said” as source..
Absolutely yes, 100% prejudiced , If you mean where innocent civilians are being killed by Assad forces and the FSA (so called) assisted by Al Qaeda.. Yep, prejudiced for sure..Kind Regards
Common sense? All the above is a Red Herring. This is about the CIA giving weapons to Al-Quaeda as you stated in the first post I replied to.
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Iseek: “And the US is assisting Qatar and Saudi Arabia /Turkey to supply arms to Al Qaeda and Rebels within Syria. There are many pot in this my friend.”
That's not entirely accurate is it?
The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.
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The same night of the F-4 shot down, the Syrians engaged a second Turk aircraft. This time it was one of the search aircraft that had been sent to locate the downed pilots. A Turkish transport aircraft on a search and rescue mission.....was fired on.
These Syrians are very trigger happy. Might be unsafe for Russia to send them HIND helos.....with every one there pulling the trigger so easily. But we all know Assad has full control of his Alawite military. Yuck, Yuck, Yuck......yes that is the Three stooges.....
Two Syrian Generals have now defected. 3 more Syrian pilots without the MIGS are seeking asylum in Jordan.....
So talking of Homs for moment. The Syrian say that there are pockets of SFA rebellions in the city. Mixed into the loyal supporters of Assad. Does it make sense to fire artillery from outside the city at them?
Artillery is very indiscriminate and not always very accurate. Most often it takes zeroing rounds to bring Artillery to a specific target.
So Assad's tactic in Homs.....is to trying to find SFA units....that are moving from house to house....with artillery. Kind of like shooting bottom hiding fish in a deep lake with a bow and arrow. All Assad is doing with the tactic is getting innocent civilians killed and injured.
These Syrians are very trigger happy. Might be unsafe for Russia to send them HIND helos.....with every one there pulling the trigger so easily. But we all know Assad has full control of his Alawite military. Yuck, Yuck, Yuck......yes that is the Three stooges.....
Two Syrian Generals have now defected. 3 more Syrian pilots without the MIGS are seeking asylum in Jordan.....
So talking of Homs for moment. The Syrian say that there are pockets of SFA rebellions in the city. Mixed into the loyal supporters of Assad. Does it make sense to fire artillery from outside the city at them?
Artillery is very indiscriminate and not always very accurate. Most often it takes zeroing rounds to bring Artillery to a specific target.
So Assad's tactic in Homs.....is to trying to find SFA units....that are moving from house to house....with artillery. Kind of like shooting bottom hiding fish in a deep lake with a bow and arrow. All Assad is doing with the tactic is getting innocent civilians killed and injured.
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Lastly....some more things to consider. Most SAMs carry a destruct mechanism. This to destruct a errant SAM that goes off course.
When the Syrian watching radar on the F-4 change course to the MED....they could have destructed the SAM right up to the last moment.
But did not.
The US has said it will stand with Turkey to make Syria 'accountable' for the lose of the F-4.
When the Syrian watching radar on the F-4 change course to the MED....they could have destructed the SAM right up to the last moment.
But did not.
The US has said it will stand with Turkey to make Syria 'accountable' for the lose of the F-4.
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LOL....just blame the CIA....when you have Russian arms ships coming into the country with HINDs!......It must be the Russia CIA connection at the Kremlin doing all the nasty stuff in Syria.,......
<--- my tooth fairy for those that believe Syria is a CIA sceme.
<--- my tooth fairy for those that believe Syria is a CIA sceme.------ This thread is Archived ------
That comment was directed to TT, whom I have been debating with here since I started this thread.
TT, said:
To which I said:
And the US is assisting Qatar and Saudi Arabia /Turkey to supply arms to Al Qaeda and Rebels within Syria. There are many pot in this my friend.
To which you replied:
To which I replied:
Hi YTB ,
Isn’t It !
Or are we talking opinion here ?,
I mean won’t those same weapons kill innocent civilians and children etc?, and isn’t it the responsibility of ALL involved to ensure or at least TRY to find a peaceful solution. If so wouldn’t it be better if they actually stopped their allies providing said arms?.
Finally, does anybody really believe that these arms won’t be handed to Al Qaeda by the Rebels? In order to further their cause..
There are no Gentlemen’s agreements in times of conflict..
(The lines above in red are those you chose to ignore in your reply..)
Your last statement was:
Red Herring, REALLY? OK then..
I didn't say the US were supplying arms (no no no)
, I said the US is assisting Turkey, Saudi etc, etc, to supply arms to etc, etc,
I declared my side at the start (peace and avoiding civilian deaths) and I would hope that even ttom500 himself, would back me on that!
But you chose to pick a statement out of context and then quote to me the NY Times, BTW, posting the same thing twice won't change what I said..
As I have said I declared my interest in this subject at the start and MANY times since, however do you wish to declare what Dog you happen to have in the fight?
Kind Regards
TT, said:
ttom500 :
So Russia is using the HIND cargo ship to stir the pot more.
So Russia is using the HIND cargo ship to stir the pot more.
To which I said:
And the US is assisting Qatar and Saudi Arabia /Turkey to supply arms to Al Qaeda and Rebels within Syria. There are many pot in this my friend.
To which you replied:
youretheboss: That's not entirely accurate is it?
The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.
The C.I.A. officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior American official said. The Obama administration has said it is not providing arms to the rebels, but it has also acknowledged that Syria’s neighbors would do so.
To which I replied:
Hi YTB ,
Isn’t It !
Or are we talking opinion here ?,
I mean won’t those same weapons kill innocent civilians and children etc?, and isn’t it the responsibility of ALL involved to ensure or at least TRY to find a peaceful solution. If so wouldn’t it be better if they actually stopped their allies providing said arms?.
Finally, does anybody really believe that these arms won’t be handed to Al Qaeda by the Rebels? In order to further their cause..
There are no Gentlemen’s agreements in times of conflict..
(The lines above in red are those you chose to ignore in your reply..)
Your last statement was:
youretheboss: Common sense? All the above is a Red Herring. This is about the CIA giving weapons to Al-Quaeda as you stated in the first post I replied to.
Red Herring, REALLY? OK then..
I didn't say the US were supplying arms (no no no)
, I said the US is assisting Turkey, Saudi etc, etc, to supply arms to etc, etc,I declared my side at the start (peace and avoiding civilian deaths) and I would hope that even ttom500 himself, would back me on that!
But you chose to pick a statement out of context and then quote to me the NY Times, BTW, posting the same thing twice won't change what I said..
As I have said I declared my interest in this subject at the start and MANY times since, however do you wish to declare what Dog you happen to have in the fight?
Kind Regards
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ttom500: LOL....just blame the CIA....when you have Russian arms ships coming into the country with HINDs!......It must be the Russia CIA connection at the Kremlin doing all the nasty stuff in Syria.,......<--- my tooth fairy for those that believe Syria is a CIA sceme.
I didn't blame the CIA! what YTB is talking about is a reply to you TT, when we were debating earlier. YTB, chose to take it out of context. read back and you will see..
As YOU above all know, I answer you with an opposite opinion sometimes, Jesus, man sometimes WE EVEN AGREE! But I HAVE declared my stance form day 1 here hence the name of the thread.. And many times since then...
I am sorry TT, don't have the time to get to the rest of your comments tonight, have to be up very early, MY APOLOGIES, I will reply to you tomorrow...
Kind Regards
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All the rubbish aside, the CIA 'assisting' arms deliveries to Al-Quaeda is incorrect and just your opinion.
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youretheboss: All the rubbish aside, the CIA 'assisting' arms deliveries to Al-Quaeda is incorrect and just your opinion.
quite right
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Further to my last post, it has now been stated that NATO intend to hold talks with Turkey as early as Tuesday. The outcome of such talks can for the moment, only be assumed / guessed.
However, It would not be foolish to assume that the next day and a half, will see growing calls from governments in the west, the Arab league members such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar for direct military action against Syria.
Since the original attempt by Kofi Annan and others to seek a peaceful solution to this terrible situation, there have been constant calls for military action from US Congress, NATO leading members, Saudi Arabia (who both arms and supply military assistance to the minority Regime in Bahrain), to deny their people basic rights and freedoms. And since the election of the new socialist President, Holland in France, he as his predecessor did before him, has continued to call for action against the Syrian Aalawite Regime. Which was ironically created (in name and stature) by a previous French occupation of Syria.
Where will it all end? And is this a solution to the killing of innocent civilians by BOTH the Regime and so called FSA (rebels) assisted by Al Qaeda, to attack Syria?
Answering the first question is within the realm of the UNKNOWN! As any attack will without doubt lead to Russia, China, Iran, and Lebanese (SECTS), involvement on one side, and US, NATO countries, Saudi, Qatar etc on the other.
This however does not even take into account Iraqi (people), Egypt, and many, many others (non-military), which in turn will result in Civil unrest in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, possibly Jordan etc..
It is frightening to even consider the possible/ reality of an attack, the M.E. will without doubt be in absolute upheaval , then there is also Israel, Gaza, West Bank, North Korea etc.
The second question is easier, any attack will lead to further killing of innocent Syrian civilians and if the experts are correct, the civilian loss in the rest of the Middle East, as a consequence of a Syrian attack, will be of biblical proportions ..
Is it therefore fantastic / outlandish to consider the possibility of a 3rd world war ?
Kind Regards