God, fact or fiction -The Sequel. (777)
YumieWindsor, UK34 Posts
that means everyone is really agnostics------ This thread is Archived ------
Wow! Thanks Yumie!
Well, maybe Gnome is right after all, there IS a God - and he clearly favours the brave.
A corn-fed, western-bred woman would never send me a piece of mail like that (you're not supposed to admire a man unless he is on TV you know?).
Yumie, an old adage: There is an innocence of admiration in those who admire, in that they, too . . . may be admired some day.
Well, maybe Gnome is right after all, there IS a God - and he clearly favours the brave.
A corn-fed, western-bred woman would never send me a piece of mail like that (you're not supposed to admire a man unless he is on TV you know?).
Yumie, an old adage: There is an innocence of admiration in those who admire, in that they, too . . . may be admired some day.
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This is my last post here. I feel pity for you Ray. You have maybe 1% of humanity to pity, and I pity that amount.
I have bipolar depression. It has kept me from gaining a college education, a good job, a wife and children. It has ruined my 45 years I have been alive. People like you Ray make me sick. You have all the advantages that billions of people would give their right arm for. Yet you use that advantage for detrimental purposes. I don't know anything about your past, but somewhere, someone or something has made you totally jaded. From what I gather, your hate was learned from misguided souls who had you in their grasp at university. You have become their perfect dupe, a puppet to further their cause of bigotry. What a waste of talent Ray. A person with your advantages to be so gullible and close minded. Your degrees are worthless.
What is even more a pity are the people here worthy of redemption who choose to follow you on this destructive path. That is why I called you out to open their eyes to realize your hate is now making them jaded and blind. You have the ability to be above the fray...to present your arguements in a moral and worthwhile way. Your anger and hate dismiss your credibility...anyone can see that, except your minions.What a shame! Repent your ways Ray not for your own tortured soul, but for theirs.
Not to play pop psychologist, but you need counseling. You beg for attention and can only achieve it by being hateful. Women who cannot see this are doomed to live a lonely life with you. Your ego and demand for attention will push them aside because it only will get worse. Seek help...if an uneducated idiot like myself can see this, surely a man of your superior intelligence can.
Yes my life has been a disaster for me. But I can hold my head high knowing I am a person full of shortcomings that realizes them. I can be proud of who I am as a person, and try to help people even less fortunate than I. It is such a shame you, with all your advantages cannot make the same claim. A simple creed of life to adopt..."do unto others" Ray. I am giving you a tremendous gift Ray, for free. Please realise what is presented here and take advantage of it. If not, my 1% pity will disappear as I am from this thread.
God bless all on this thread and I offer my apologies to the OP.
I have bipolar depression. It has kept me from gaining a college education, a good job, a wife and children. It has ruined my 45 years I have been alive. People like you Ray make me sick. You have all the advantages that billions of people would give their right arm for. Yet you use that advantage for detrimental purposes. I don't know anything about your past, but somewhere, someone or something has made you totally jaded. From what I gather, your hate was learned from misguided souls who had you in their grasp at university. You have become their perfect dupe, a puppet to further their cause of bigotry. What a waste of talent Ray. A person with your advantages to be so gullible and close minded. Your degrees are worthless.
What is even more a pity are the people here worthy of redemption who choose to follow you on this destructive path. That is why I called you out to open their eyes to realize your hate is now making them jaded and blind. You have the ability to be above the fray...to present your arguements in a moral and worthwhile way. Your anger and hate dismiss your credibility...anyone can see that, except your minions.What a shame! Repent your ways Ray not for your own tortured soul, but for theirs.
Not to play pop psychologist, but you need counseling. You beg for attention and can only achieve it by being hateful. Women who cannot see this are doomed to live a lonely life with you. Your ego and demand for attention will push them aside because it only will get worse. Seek help...if an uneducated idiot like myself can see this, surely a man of your superior intelligence can.
Yes my life has been a disaster for me. But I can hold my head high knowing I am a person full of shortcomings that realizes them. I can be proud of who I am as a person, and try to help people even less fortunate than I. It is such a shame you, with all your advantages cannot make the same claim. A simple creed of life to adopt..."do unto others" Ray. I am giving you a tremendous gift Ray, for free. Please realise what is presented here and take advantage of it. If not, my 1% pity will disappear as I am from this thread.
God bless all on this thread and I offer my apologies to the OP.
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i think you've taken things a little too personally casey and i don't agree with what you're saying about ray. i'm sorry to hear about your depression but i know ray isn't the person you say he is and i've been back to read the posts and he's not lying and this is a thread about god debate and not moral virtue or the teachings of religion and judging people who don't live acording to those teachings. some people don't belive in limitng themselves with selflessness and morality and for its own sake... and really i think you're taking things to personally
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so we should look at everything to find the source?
Or should we just be conversant with a wide spectrum and concentrate on the most likely?
Or are only a select few allowed to cut and paste willy nilly?
the masseage was in the lyrics
Or should we just be conversant with a wide spectrum and concentrate on the most likely?
Or are only a select few allowed to cut and paste willy nilly?
the masseage was in the lyrics
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Alrighty, I guess you are familiar with "Occam's razor" ?
It was based on "William of Occam" and says: "Non est ponenda pluralites sive necessitate" or in english: "Do not multiply entities unless necessarily". It is a principle for scientific labour which means that one should use a simple explanation with a few explanatory premises before a more complex one.
Let's say that everything must be created, and that was done by an omnipotent god. A god which stands above time, space, moral and existence, which is self containing and in it self has it's own cause. This entity can surely be replaced by the known world. The world stands above time, space, moral, existence, is self containing and in it has it's own meaning. Most theists agree that god has a nature. Then we must raise the question, who created god's nature? If we just accept that god has a nature and exists without a cause, why not say that the known world just is and that the laws of physics are what they are, without a cause?
God is not really an explanation, only a non-explanation. It is impossible to gain information from non-information so God as an explanation is a dead end. When we have said that the reason for something is that 'god did it that way' there is no way to understand it any further. We just shrug our shoulders and accept things as they are. To explain the unknown by god is only to explain how it happened, not why. If we are to investigate the world and build our views of life from the world, we cannot assume a god. Because adding god as an explanation leaves as many, if not more questions than it explains, god has to be removed with Occam's razor if we are serious in investigating the world, like "scientism" surely is.
It was based on "William of Occam" and says: "Non est ponenda pluralites sive necessitate" or in english: "Do not multiply entities unless necessarily". It is a principle for scientific labour which means that one should use a simple explanation with a few explanatory premises before a more complex one.
Let's say that everything must be created, and that was done by an omnipotent god. A god which stands above time, space, moral and existence, which is self containing and in it self has it's own cause. This entity can surely be replaced by the known world. The world stands above time, space, moral, existence, is self containing and in it has it's own meaning. Most theists agree that god has a nature. Then we must raise the question, who created god's nature? If we just accept that god has a nature and exists without a cause, why not say that the known world just is and that the laws of physics are what they are, without a cause?
God is not really an explanation, only a non-explanation. It is impossible to gain information from non-information so God as an explanation is a dead end. When we have said that the reason for something is that 'god did it that way' there is no way to understand it any further. We just shrug our shoulders and accept things as they are. To explain the unknown by god is only to explain how it happened, not why. If we are to investigate the world and build our views of life from the world, we cannot assume a god. Because adding god as an explanation leaves as many, if not more questions than it explains, god has to be removed with Occam's razor if we are serious in investigating the world, like "scientism" surely is.
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Sure he can he is particularly fond of puppies paws.
And his 'warrior' garb comes from Toys 'r' us.
Capguns and plastic swords.
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How about 'The Tao of Pooh'?
I've read that one!
I've read that one!
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FACT!!!
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That's what makes it so fun. No cheating on the final exam.
But according to some here after we die there is nothing so they do not even have the hope of eventually knowing they were right. They'll spend thier whole life with at least a nagging Gnome of a doubt!
Merry Christmas to All !
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"To explain the unknown by god is only to explain how it happened, not why.
'
I think you got it backwards there. I'd think we would be a lot closer to understanding the 'why' than the 'how'. Even if you don't accept the bible as the 'why' The 'how' is a lot more difficult to nail down scientifically.
Merry Christmas
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Thanks for that reply Charlos.
I have always believed in accordance with eastern systems of metaphysics a 'god' who did not create the world 'for fun' but out of necessity/cause.
At bottom I look at 'god and the various religions he is attached to' as systems of metaphysics (albeit childish ones) - maybe one day we will have an explanation and say, hey, that's what we used to call 'god' or what we used to use 'god' because we couldn't explain.
People will probably still not believe it.
God is indeed a non-explanation and it is impossible to gain information from non-information.
However I believe in the logical rule that a true conclusion can follow from a false-premises.
Hence the fascination for these systems of metaphysics.
Thanks for that excellent post. I believe I said earlier myself that if we want to explain the world we need to keep our eyes solely thereon.
I have always believed in accordance with eastern systems of metaphysics a 'god' who did not create the world 'for fun' but out of necessity/cause.
At bottom I look at 'god and the various religions he is attached to' as systems of metaphysics (albeit childish ones) - maybe one day we will have an explanation and say, hey, that's what we used to call 'god' or what we used to use 'god' because we couldn't explain.
People will probably still not believe it.
God is indeed a non-explanation and it is impossible to gain information from non-information.
However I believe in the logical rule that a true conclusion can follow from a false-premises.
Hence the fascination for these systems of metaphysics.
Thanks for that excellent post. I believe I said earlier myself that if we want to explain the world we need to keep our eyes solely thereon.
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Okay Gnome - bad blood aside - let's go with this: let us look at the why . . .
Why?
HOW is the bible the WHY?
Why?
HOW is the bible the WHY?
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No, seriously, if you think putting Christmas presents under a pine tree is not symbolic of mushrooms you are mistaken my friend. And if you think the most traditional Christmas colours of white and red are not from that mushroom . . .
THINK AGAIN
THINK AGAIN
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I dont care what they say i love you ray
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i dont understand how you can apolgise for hypcrisy and be hypocrytical in the same sentence but i accept the appology and do wish you'd come back. ray seems to have apologised...i think. 
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Gnome's not gonna like this...
in that case:
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I did too Trish!!! it seems ray really is trying to put people on the path of what is true. its amazing but i never thought of it before but it really does make sense and you can see the relations...it seems theres more to everything than fist meets the eye...and there is diffently more to ray
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and according to yet others, there is a rich tapestry of possibilities awaiting us in the hereafter - rather than the hell fire and damnation which is constantly being threatened for not believing in the megalomaniac 'one'
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Hi Yumie, it really made me laugh out loud that one 
Im really happy you and Ray are getting on so well, its good to see
Im really happy you and Ray are getting on so well, its good to see
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