God, fact or fiction -The Sequel. (777)
Or we can talk about The Big Bang Theory!
In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. And then there was something from which everything came.
Just disproving the logic of The Big Bang Theory with my immodest brilliance.
BUT:
On the other ankle . . .
Seems to be as good - or as absurd - an explanation for existence as: in the beginning there was God (or the spirit hovering over the deep), and then there was something from which everything came (and it all came from HIM).
Is that not just as circuitous in its logic?
But if the logic is that something must exist to make something exist, what made God exist?
God is merely the name given to that inexplicable something from which everything came which we may one day know or may never know in so far as it may forever be beyond our powers of comprehension.
But how was there God before nothing in the same way as how was there nothing before God?
Well, the God-heads argue: it is beyond our powers of conception.
So, I take it then, that BECAUSE it is beyond our powers of conception, we should take it then as a given-
That it was God?
That is how I see their argument FOR God. That is how I see their argument – against God.
In the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded. And then there was something from which everything came.
Just disproving the logic of The Big Bang Theory with my immodest brilliance.
BUT:
On the other ankle . . .
Seems to be as good - or as absurd - an explanation for existence as: in the beginning there was God (or the spirit hovering over the deep), and then there was something from which everything came (and it all came from HIM).
Is that not just as circuitous in its logic?
But if the logic is that something must exist to make something exist, what made God exist?
God is merely the name given to that inexplicable something from which everything came which we may one day know or may never know in so far as it may forever be beyond our powers of comprehension.
But how was there God before nothing in the same way as how was there nothing before God?
Well, the God-heads argue: it is beyond our powers of conception.
So, I take it then, that BECAUSE it is beyond our powers of conception, we should take it then as a given-
That it was God?
That is how I see their argument FOR God. That is how I see their argument – against God.
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I am a diagnosed Narcissist. But if it’s any consolation to you, I didn't choose to be. I was born this way, and this is the way I am.
And I make NO apologies.
In a world where, from the outset, one is born into poor and powerless self-limiting morality, I find it a most agreeable psychological affliction.
And make no apology for it.
And I make NO apologies.
In a world where, from the outset, one is born into poor and powerless self-limiting morality, I find it a most agreeable psychological affliction.
And make no apology for it.
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I reckon there is another way Ray but its going to take people opening their eyes to the ways that they have been used as pawns for centuries and a reapraisal of the traditional moralities. I think it all began at the first Council of Nicea (hahaha)
Even those of us who eschew war are guilty are joining in the race to have, have, have. We are all so bloody materialistic and this simply feeds the battle of acquiring raw materials. It is us who have allowed the conglomerates to propliferate and to produce such poor quality goods, so many un-necessary medicines - how many people have noticed their white goods breaking down a couple of months after the guarantees expire. How many turn a blind eye to sweat shop labour.
I do not suggest civil war but we have to do something or are we all too lethargic to be bothered - maybe we are simply being distracted by religious inanities while the rest of it all simply goes on unhindered - opiate of the masses style.
When people speak to me of moralities, and claim only their versions as 'true' I have to wonder at their information base...................
Even those of us who eschew war are guilty are joining in the race to have, have, have. We are all so bloody materialistic and this simply feeds the battle of acquiring raw materials. It is us who have allowed the conglomerates to propliferate and to produce such poor quality goods, so many un-necessary medicines - how many people have noticed their white goods breaking down a couple of months after the guarantees expire. How many turn a blind eye to sweat shop labour.
I do not suggest civil war but we have to do something or are we all too lethargic to be bothered - maybe we are simply being distracted by religious inanities while the rest of it all simply goes on unhindered - opiate of the masses style.
When people speak to me of moralities, and claim only their versions as 'true' I have to wonder at their information base...................
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From Nexus magazine - July 2007.
The Forged Origins of The New Testament
In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor Constantine united all religious factions under one composite deity, and ordered the compilation of new and old writings into a uniform collection that became the New Testament.
The Church claims that "the resurrection is the fundamental argument for our Christian belief" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xii, p. 792), yet no supernatural appearance of a resurrected Jesus Christ is recorded in any of the earliest Gospels of Mark available. A resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ is the sine qua non ("without which, nothing") of Christianity (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xii, p. 792), confirmed by words attributed to Paul: "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is in vain" (1 Cor. 5:17).
The resurrection verses in today's Gospels of Mark are universally acknowledged as forgeries and the Church agrees, saying "the conclusion of Mark is admittedly not genuine ... almost the entire section is a later compilation" (Encyclopaedia Biblica, vol. ii, p. 1880, vol. iii, pp. 1767, 1781; also, Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. iii, under the heading "The Evidence of its Spuriousness"; Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. iii, pp. 274-9 under heading "Canons"). Undaunted, however, the Church accepted the forgery into its dogma and made it the basis of Christianity.
The trend of fictitious resurrection narratives continues. The final chapter of the Gospel of John (21) is a sixth-century forgery, one entirely devoted to describing Jesus' resurrection to his disciples. The Church admits: "The sole conclusion that can be deduced from this is that the 21st chapter was afterwards added and is therefore to be regarded as an appendix to the Gospel" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. viii, pp. 441-442; New Catholic Encyclopedia (NCE), "Gospel of John", p. 1080; also NCE, vol. xii, p. 407).
"The Great Insertion" and "The Great Omission"
Modern-day versions of the Gospel of Luke have a staggering 10,000 more words than the same Gospel in the Sinai Bible. Six of those words say of Jesus "and was carried up into heaven", but this narrative does not appear in any of the oldest Gospels of Luke available today ("Three Early Doctrinal Modifications of the Text of the Gospels", F. C. Conybeare, The Hibbert Journal, London, vol. 1, no. 1, Oct 1902, pp. 96-113).
Ancient versions do not verify modern-day accounts of an ascension of Jesus Christ, and this falsification clearly indicates an intention to deceive.
Today, the Gospel of Luke is the longest of the canonical Gospels because it now includes "The Great Insertion", an extraordinary 15th-century addition totalling around 8,500 words (Luke 9:51-18:14). The insertion of these forgeries into that Gospel bewilders modern Christian analysts, and of them the Church said: "The character of these passages makes it dangerous to draw inferences" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Pecci ed., vol. ii, p. 407).
Just as remarkable, the oldest Gospels of Luke omit all verses from 6:45 to 8:26, known in priesthood circles as "The Great Omission", a total of 1,547 words. In today's versions, that hole has been "plugged up" with passages plagiarised from other Gospels. Dr Tischendorf found that three paragraphs in newer versions of the Gospel of Luke's version of the Last Supper appeared in the 15th century, but the Church still passes its Gospels off as the unadulterated "word of God"
("Are Our Gospels Genuine or Not?", op. cit.)
The Forged Origins of The New Testament
In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor Constantine united all religious factions under one composite deity, and ordered the compilation of new and old writings into a uniform collection that became the New Testament.
The Church claims that "the resurrection is the fundamental argument for our Christian belief" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xii, p. 792), yet no supernatural appearance of a resurrected Jesus Christ is recorded in any of the earliest Gospels of Mark available. A resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ is the sine qua non ("without which, nothing") of Christianity (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xii, p. 792), confirmed by words attributed to Paul: "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is in vain" (1 Cor. 5:17).
The resurrection verses in today's Gospels of Mark are universally acknowledged as forgeries and the Church agrees, saying "the conclusion of Mark is admittedly not genuine ... almost the entire section is a later compilation" (Encyclopaedia Biblica, vol. ii, p. 1880, vol. iii, pp. 1767, 1781; also, Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. iii, under the heading "The Evidence of its Spuriousness"; Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. iii, pp. 274-9 under heading "Canons"). Undaunted, however, the Church accepted the forgery into its dogma and made it the basis of Christianity.
The trend of fictitious resurrection narratives continues. The final chapter of the Gospel of John (21) is a sixth-century forgery, one entirely devoted to describing Jesus' resurrection to his disciples. The Church admits: "The sole conclusion that can be deduced from this is that the 21st chapter was afterwards added and is therefore to be regarded as an appendix to the Gospel" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. viii, pp. 441-442; New Catholic Encyclopedia (NCE), "Gospel of John", p. 1080; also NCE, vol. xii, p. 407).
"The Great Insertion" and "The Great Omission"
Modern-day versions of the Gospel of Luke have a staggering 10,000 more words than the same Gospel in the Sinai Bible. Six of those words say of Jesus "and was carried up into heaven", but this narrative does not appear in any of the oldest Gospels of Luke available today ("Three Early Doctrinal Modifications of the Text of the Gospels", F. C. Conybeare, The Hibbert Journal, London, vol. 1, no. 1, Oct 1902, pp. 96-113).
Ancient versions do not verify modern-day accounts of an ascension of Jesus Christ, and this falsification clearly indicates an intention to deceive.
Today, the Gospel of Luke is the longest of the canonical Gospels because it now includes "The Great Insertion", an extraordinary 15th-century addition totalling around 8,500 words (Luke 9:51-18:14). The insertion of these forgeries into that Gospel bewilders modern Christian analysts, and of them the Church said: "The character of these passages makes it dangerous to draw inferences" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Pecci ed., vol. ii, p. 407).
Just as remarkable, the oldest Gospels of Luke omit all verses from 6:45 to 8:26, known in priesthood circles as "The Great Omission", a total of 1,547 words. In today's versions, that hole has been "plugged up" with passages plagiarised from other Gospels. Dr Tischendorf found that three paragraphs in newer versions of the Gospel of Luke's version of the Last Supper appeared in the 15th century, but the Church still passes its Gospels off as the unadulterated "word of God"
("Are Our Gospels Genuine or Not?", op. cit.)
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my final comment of the day
to my mate i missed so much
trish and ray
sittin in a treeee
k-i-s-s-i-n-g
L8R talking heads
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not - he is younger than my son for wisdoms sake 
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Not willing to clarify yourself? Why?
too difficult?
too difficult?
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I submit as 'proof' the continuous and ongoing positve benefit derived by those who faith in God.
The comfort that many get from thier belief has been confirmed by Mental health professionals. (Confirmed- not explained ).
I am no psychologist, but sounds good to me.
The comfort that many get from thier belief has been confirmed by Mental health professionals. (Confirmed- not explained ).
I am no psychologist, but sounds good to me.
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1- AHHH...... There is nothing I can do if my faith intimidates you. That comes from you not me, and I will not deny it to protect you. Perhaps if you could state YOUR beliefs in a positive way rather than enumerating the percieved faults in Christianity I could comprehend. Neale Donald Walsch? If I am to read this are you willing to read 'The Purpose Driven Life' by Rick Warren?
2- On the gift of prayer. Since you are so sensitive to people's assumptions, will you extend the same courtesy? Do not assume that all who offer prayer do not perform physical acts of charity and goodwill also. My experience has been those that pray are also the ones digging the wells, and caring for the orphans.
3- Religious cap doffing? subservience? OK- I do it out of a sense of respect, not compliance. My choice. It seems you have a notion of some far flung Christian conspiracy of world domination. What I see is ongoing infighting among various Christian denominations. Hardly the organized force you describe.
4- Nature as God's work. In nature, where man has little lasting impact, I find myself closest to God.
5- Man's POLITICS -not God's- stop whatever positive interventions you claim 'millions' are trying to provide. I guess I am just to dense to see the connection of the 'Christian Conspiracy' in denying aid to Darfur. I contend that the crisis there has a political, not theological cause. I also contend that politics, not Christianity, sustains it. How much worse might it be if not for the prayers you scorn?
2- On the gift of prayer. Since you are so sensitive to people's assumptions, will you extend the same courtesy? Do not assume that all who offer prayer do not perform physical acts of charity and goodwill also. My experience has been those that pray are also the ones digging the wells, and caring for the orphans.
3- Religious cap doffing? subservience? OK- I do it out of a sense of respect, not compliance. My choice. It seems you have a notion of some far flung Christian conspiracy of world domination. What I see is ongoing infighting among various Christian denominations. Hardly the organized force you describe.
4- Nature as God's work. In nature, where man has little lasting impact, I find myself closest to God.
5- Man's POLITICS -not God's- stop whatever positive interventions you claim 'millions' are trying to provide. I guess I am just to dense to see the connection of the 'Christian Conspiracy' in denying aid to Darfur. I contend that the crisis there has a political, not theological cause. I also contend that politics, not Christianity, sustains it. How much worse might it be if not for the prayers you scorn?
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The bible is a work of art, not of 'brainwashing' but of language. Psalms, Song of Solomon- brilliant. You propose a conspiracy theory that would be concieved over two thousand years ago and even now not truly exposed. I have never known a secret so well kept. From a practical standpoint the Bible contains a history of a nation, covering a period of thousands of years. Finally commited to the written word it suffered translation and probably editing and revision. The King James version is in the area of 400 years old, and has remained consistant over that time frame, has it not? Pretty good.
The passages you quote are from The Old Testament, dealing with the arrival of Israel from Egypt. It tells the story of how God granted them the land of people who worshipped idols and offered human sacrifice. I am no biblical scholar, but I am led to understand that the rational for the entire destruction of these realms was to remove that form of worship. Harsh, yes, but hardly unique among primitive societies, who would often wipe out thier enemies completely. Eliminating any that might retain a memory of the culture and possibly mature to seek vengance.
The passages you quote are from The Old Testament, dealing with the arrival of Israel from Egypt. It tells the story of how God granted them the land of people who worshipped idols and offered human sacrifice. I am no biblical scholar, but I am led to understand that the rational for the entire destruction of these realms was to remove that form of worship. Harsh, yes, but hardly unique among primitive societies, who would often wipe out thier enemies completely. Eliminating any that might retain a memory of the culture and possibly mature to seek vengance.
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I am sorry. I really don't understand your 'belief'. What I get is :
1- there is a God
2- This God is not the God of Abraham and the bible.
3- God is nature, I understand you to say that you believe nature to be too complex to be an accidental mutation, therefore it is a creation.
I acknowledge I am a part of the universe. I am also aware that humans are a selfish species. We can easily see the great potential of harmony, but are too selfish to achieve it. Greed, jealousy, vanity are too great. Allow yourself to take theology entirely out of the equation. Can you show me a society that exsists in harmony?
1- there is a God
2- This God is not the God of Abraham and the bible.
3- God is nature, I understand you to say that you believe nature to be too complex to be an accidental mutation, therefore it is a creation.
I acknowledge I am a part of the universe. I am also aware that humans are a selfish species. We can easily see the great potential of harmony, but are too selfish to achieve it. Greed, jealousy, vanity are too great. Allow yourself to take theology entirely out of the equation. Can you show me a society that exsists in harmony?
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Ahh
and now I come to my young friend.
I am assuming your opening statement is an expletive, not an invocation?
You offer not gold but closer to pyrite, of more worth to the mob you follow than those who believe and have faith.
As I mentioned before- a ditch can also be a trench, adequate fortification against your childish rock throwing.
I counter that wisdom from the ditch is of more value than ignorance from kings.
Thanks for the flower and note, The burden is light and easily carried.
and now I come to my young friend.
I am assuming your opening statement is an expletive, not an invocation?
You offer not gold but closer to pyrite, of more worth to the mob you follow than those who believe and have faith.
As I mentioned before- a ditch can also be a trench, adequate fortification against your childish rock throwing.
I counter that wisdom from the ditch is of more value than ignorance from kings.
Thanks for the flower and note, The burden is light and easily carried.
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Not up to your usual standards. I'd think you would dignify my betters with better quality than this.
But it looks like he truly is of a higher character than either of us as he has left the site. Looks like it's back to you and me kid.
But it looks like he truly is of a higher character than either of us as he has left the site. Looks like it's back to you and me kid.
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It is a central dogma of all fundamental Christians that the Bible is without error. They teach this conclusion by reasoning that god cannot be the author of false meaning and he cannot lie.
If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries (what it actually represents !) would be expected to contradict each other.
Just a small sample on the “seeing of God”:
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
And there are many examples like this. That’s almost typical for Christianity.
They don’t really know when (not the day, not the month and not even the year) their Jesus was born but found it practical to link it up with the famous Roman date of “Deus Sol Invictus” which also fitted nicely with a similar “Holy Day” of the other pagans of that time.
Makes it easier to switch, ehh ?
Based on such a “solid ground” you do not even need to discuss the other key statements like virgin birth, angels, paradise, god, reincarnation etc. pp.
If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries (what it actually represents !) would be expected to contradict each other.
Just a small sample on the “seeing of God”:
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
And there are many examples like this. That’s almost typical for Christianity.
They don’t really know when (not the day, not the month and not even the year) their Jesus was born but found it practical to link it up with the famous Roman date of “Deus Sol Invictus” which also fitted nicely with a similar “Holy Day” of the other pagans of that time.
Makes it easier to switch, ehh ?
Based on such a “solid ground” you do not even need to discuss the other key statements like virgin birth, angels, paradise, god, reincarnation etc. pp.
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Proper frame of Mind? Interesting .... Is it a Doped frame?
I always suspected that religion is a dope to fog minds into proper frame
I always suspected that religion is a dope to fog minds into proper frame
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ive not said anything regarding my agreement or not
with your 'information'
its the manner in which you share it thats so-
erg-yukky
when this has been mentioned in the past
you have stated you are very proud of being offensive
to each his own i spose
seems counterproductive was my point...