God, fact or fiction -The Sequel. (777)
IS it a blank notion or only something that you have blinded yourself to.?
Faith exsists, whether you see it or not.
Therefore, if you truly seek to know you must also consider it
Faith exsists, whether you see it or not.
Therefore, if you truly seek to know you must also consider it
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No you have to also understand 'faith' to apply it
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Yea, we play nice occaisionally
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Nobody else has posted since me yesterday afternoon?
Did the world end and nobody thought to tell me?
HellooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOO!
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That wasn't judgemental ???
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That something unknown is spirituallity It can not be measured You can talk about it all your life and turn it anyway you want but it can not be measured by scientific means or by the five senses ,some things are still beyond our grasp, Indeed we need to keep searching.
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I believe the way we see things - of course is due to the tainting of the eye .
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Hey, Gnome, here's something interesting for you.
Did you know that I both believe in God AND have faith in him?
But I have studied almost all of the world religions, read the books upon which their teachings are based, and do not consider that the TRUE truth lies in any one of them.
The only allegorical truth in most if not all of them is that: Compassion is the basis of morality. Seeing yourself in other living things and other human beings.
Thus you have sociopaths who have no compassion because they don't or can't see themselves in other living things and other human beings (Ted Bundy was raised in a good Christian household by a good Christian family).
So they start off young killing animals and later even human beings with no compunction whatsoever and even with thrill and delight. The only ‘guilt’ they have is the fear of being caught and punished by the law.
My faith is something a little bit different than faith in any one given system of metaphysics.
But if compassion is the basis of that system of metaphysics, then I would consider that system to contain one of the highest truths, and see that system fully-justified if it is to teach it to the masses of the people in such a way as to instil it within them for life should they lack a firm intellectual conviction or ability to understand that compassion is the basis of morality.
But that I take all the mythology and allegories surrounding those systems of metaphysics as literally true . . .
Hah! There you would be mistaken!
Did you know that I both believe in God AND have faith in him?
But I have studied almost all of the world religions, read the books upon which their teachings are based, and do not consider that the TRUE truth lies in any one of them.
The only allegorical truth in most if not all of them is that: Compassion is the basis of morality. Seeing yourself in other living things and other human beings.
Thus you have sociopaths who have no compassion because they don't or can't see themselves in other living things and other human beings (Ted Bundy was raised in a good Christian household by a good Christian family).
So they start off young killing animals and later even human beings with no compunction whatsoever and even with thrill and delight. The only ‘guilt’ they have is the fear of being caught and punished by the law.
My faith is something a little bit different than faith in any one given system of metaphysics.
But if compassion is the basis of that system of metaphysics, then I would consider that system to contain one of the highest truths, and see that system fully-justified if it is to teach it to the masses of the people in such a way as to instil it within them for life should they lack a firm intellectual conviction or ability to understand that compassion is the basis of morality.
But that I take all the mythology and allegories surrounding those systems of metaphysics as literally true . . .
Hah! There you would be mistaken!
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Our Real Nature
From an 1990 article by Timothy Conway, Ph.D.
There is only AWARENESS -- what ancient mystics describe as non-dual, one without a second, or the "natural state."
The natural state, also called presence awareness, is so constant, so ever present, that it is as overlooked as water is by fish, or air by people.
The natural state (our real nature) is always with us. Indeed, presence awareness is the only reality, the only constant in our lives. It's the very basis of our existence.
The natural state is our underlying condition, or "ground of being," and it's what allows us to experience everything. But it has been largely ignored in favor of our conditioned behavior of living nearly every moment of every day from the perspective of the completely automatic, yet utterly false, reference point of "me."
Once seen as illusory, this false "self-centre," or human-made reference point, begins to recede and fade, while the natural state, a state of wholeness and oneness with all that is remains.
Regaining the seemingly lost natural state or true nature has been the goal of spiritual seekers for thousands of years.
Down through the centuries, various sages have called our real nature: Buddha-nature, Christ-within, God, I AM THAT AM, Pure Spirit, Clear Light, Tao, Brahman/Atman, Being-Awareness-Bliss, The One Bright Pearl and so on, but we shall refer to it here simply as Awareness.
The natural state of Awareness is This that is right now looking, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, thinking, intuiting.
Awareness has also manifested Itself as all these sensible/perceptible objects -- namely, the various sights, sounds, textures, smells, tastes, thoughts, memories, emotions, and psychic impulses.
Awareness is thus Who or What You Really Are and Awareness is What Everything Essentially Is.
The phenomenal universe of bodies and minds (99.9999% empty space at the subatomic level, according to physics) is the marvelous, mysterious “dream-play” of Divine Awareness.
In other words, all worlds of form (on physical and subtle levels) are the expression of formless Awareness.
All changing “things” are manifestations of the unchanging No-Thing (the transcendent Awareness/Spirit/God).
One cannot know, perceive, find or grasp Awareness as an object of experience, since Awareness is fundamentally not an object. Rather, it is the eternal Subject (one might even say: Awareness is THIS which subsumes and transcends the subject-object split).
Therefore, one can only BE Awareness, abide as THIS Awareness, remain as THIS, operate from THIS, flourish as THIS, shine as THIS Awareness.
One cannot touch or look at formless Awareness, just as a fingertip cannot touch itself or the eye cannot directly see itself. In short, though Awareness is not knowable or perceivable, It is be-able.
Everyone is always coming from pure Awareness. But not everyone is conscious of This. A kind of Divine sport, mischief or play (Sanskrit: lila) is rampant, wherein beings (who are, after all, God-in-disguise) appear to have forgotten their real nature.
They masquerade in various forms of egotism, not living in/as Divine Love. They are caught in various states of greed, aversion, shame, anger, frustration, fear, euphoria, and so forth.
How, then, does it feel to be awake to one’s real identity as Divine Awareness?
Direct experience along with the testimony of sages reveals that Divine Awareness is most authentically and gloriously being lived when the following enlightenment factors are present:
From an 1990 article by Timothy Conway, Ph.D.
There is only AWARENESS -- what ancient mystics describe as non-dual, one without a second, or the "natural state."
The natural state, also called presence awareness, is so constant, so ever present, that it is as overlooked as water is by fish, or air by people.
The natural state (our real nature) is always with us. Indeed, presence awareness is the only reality, the only constant in our lives. It's the very basis of our existence.
The natural state is our underlying condition, or "ground of being," and it's what allows us to experience everything. But it has been largely ignored in favor of our conditioned behavior of living nearly every moment of every day from the perspective of the completely automatic, yet utterly false, reference point of "me."
Once seen as illusory, this false "self-centre," or human-made reference point, begins to recede and fade, while the natural state, a state of wholeness and oneness with all that is remains.
Regaining the seemingly lost natural state or true nature has been the goal of spiritual seekers for thousands of years.
Down through the centuries, various sages have called our real nature: Buddha-nature, Christ-within, God, I AM THAT AM, Pure Spirit, Clear Light, Tao, Brahman/Atman, Being-Awareness-Bliss, The One Bright Pearl and so on, but we shall refer to it here simply as Awareness.
The natural state of Awareness is This that is right now looking, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, thinking, intuiting.
Awareness has also manifested Itself as all these sensible/perceptible objects -- namely, the various sights, sounds, textures, smells, tastes, thoughts, memories, emotions, and psychic impulses.
Awareness is thus Who or What You Really Are and Awareness is What Everything Essentially Is.
The phenomenal universe of bodies and minds (99.9999% empty space at the subatomic level, according to physics) is the marvelous, mysterious “dream-play” of Divine Awareness.
In other words, all worlds of form (on physical and subtle levels) are the expression of formless Awareness.
All changing “things” are manifestations of the unchanging No-Thing (the transcendent Awareness/Spirit/God).
One cannot know, perceive, find or grasp Awareness as an object of experience, since Awareness is fundamentally not an object. Rather, it is the eternal Subject (one might even say: Awareness is THIS which subsumes and transcends the subject-object split).
Therefore, one can only BE Awareness, abide as THIS Awareness, remain as THIS, operate from THIS, flourish as THIS, shine as THIS Awareness.
One cannot touch or look at formless Awareness, just as a fingertip cannot touch itself or the eye cannot directly see itself. In short, though Awareness is not knowable or perceivable, It is be-able.
Everyone is always coming from pure Awareness. But not everyone is conscious of This. A kind of Divine sport, mischief or play (Sanskrit: lila) is rampant, wherein beings (who are, after all, God-in-disguise) appear to have forgotten their real nature.
They masquerade in various forms of egotism, not living in/as Divine Love. They are caught in various states of greed, aversion, shame, anger, frustration, fear, euphoria, and so forth.
How, then, does it feel to be awake to one’s real identity as Divine Awareness?
Direct experience along with the testimony of sages reveals that Divine Awareness is most authentically and gloriously being lived when the following enlightenment factors are present:
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• A sense of utter freedom and simplicity, akin to “zero-gravity”; behavior is spontaneous, free-flowing, unstuck, unfixated. One is motivated only to love and serve all beings as OneSelf.
• No more being trapped in narrow, exclusive identifications with a petty “me” (“my” needs, roles, opinions, abilities, emotions, possessions, etc.).
• No more felt-sense of separation between a “me over here” and a “you/it/them out there.” Rather, there is a sense of profound oneness with all beings.
• No pulling or pushing of experience with heavy, binding likes/dislikes, attachments/aversions, greed, lust, anger, fear, disgust, hate, and so on. (Various emotions may arise from time to time, but are immediately or fairly quickly recognized as not one’s real nature but passing Divine dream-expressions, and so are dissolved in the light of Awareness.)
• Whatever happens in the world of forms (the field of Awareness) is not resisted, but loved and appreciated as the poignant, playful expression of Spirit. And, paradoxically, there is a Divine urge within this non-resistance and sense of inherent perfection to remedy injustices, right wrongs, heal traumas, and improve conditions for all sentient beings.
• One is quite content to just be, not driven by any restlessness or a sense of dilemma into the busy-ness of egocentric having and doing. One is deeply relaxed, living out of the peace of “deep sleep wakefulness” (as sages paradoxically call it), even in the midst of helpful actions.
• Genuine happiness prevails, not restless giddiness: a simple bliss, not dependent on circumstances or people for fulfillment. The essence here is being clear, not "getting high."
• Though fallible aspects of the personality may still arise, their transformation happens lightly within an overall Taoist sense of “perfection perfecting itself perfectly.”
• No more being trapped in narrow, exclusive identifications with a petty “me” (“my” needs, roles, opinions, abilities, emotions, possessions, etc.).
• No more felt-sense of separation between a “me over here” and a “you/it/them out there.” Rather, there is a sense of profound oneness with all beings.
• No pulling or pushing of experience with heavy, binding likes/dislikes, attachments/aversions, greed, lust, anger, fear, disgust, hate, and so on. (Various emotions may arise from time to time, but are immediately or fairly quickly recognized as not one’s real nature but passing Divine dream-expressions, and so are dissolved in the light of Awareness.)
• Whatever happens in the world of forms (the field of Awareness) is not resisted, but loved and appreciated as the poignant, playful expression of Spirit. And, paradoxically, there is a Divine urge within this non-resistance and sense of inherent perfection to remedy injustices, right wrongs, heal traumas, and improve conditions for all sentient beings.
• One is quite content to just be, not driven by any restlessness or a sense of dilemma into the busy-ness of egocentric having and doing. One is deeply relaxed, living out of the peace of “deep sleep wakefulness” (as sages paradoxically call it), even in the midst of helpful actions.
• Genuine happiness prevails, not restless giddiness: a simple bliss, not dependent on circumstances or people for fulfillment. The essence here is being clear, not "getting high."
• Though fallible aspects of the personality may still arise, their transformation happens lightly within an overall Taoist sense of “perfection perfecting itself perfectly.”
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• One is in Love, radiant as Love, always dying into and reborn as Love in each timeless moment.
If you somehow feel that you aren’t authentically living your true nature, your real identity as Spiritual Awareness, there is nothing you as an ego-sense can really do. Spiritual realization occurs spontaneously via the Grace of Awareness, not via ego efforts.
Being in conact with or in the presence of a true sage or spiritual mentor is a big help. Enlightenment communicates itself.
Sages have also given some classic messages for the ego-sense to subside, so that awakening to THIS which is “always already the case” may occur:
Just deeply relax and let go of all sense of being a thing-like “me.” Let self dissolve (“die”) into Being. Detach as undisturbed Witness from all sensations, thoughts, memories, emotions, self-images, and whatever else may be fixating you.
Whenever things arise in consciousness, just watch and let go of them, moment by moment... Empty out. Dwell as no-body, no-thing, pure Presence. Just be (and no need to get restless or make a big deal out of just being.)
Be quite simple and uncomplicated, without struggle or striving or posturing. Come from your natural depth, not the surface mind.
Remember that there's no need to become pure Awareness -- you already are THIS in your original truth -- your natural state.
Let body-mind function spontaneously according to the Divine Will, and simply abide as what you fun-damentally always are: the vast, spacious, seamless, unlimited, radiant expanse of Clear Light-Awareness.
Know that, amidst all the changing aspects of your world, you are the Changeless One that has been and will be unchangingly present throughout your life (or lifetimes).
Underlying all perceptible forms, you are the formless Awareness that is “dreaming” these forms. This Awareness is complete and unimprovable -- the pristine emptiness/fullness of Divinity.
Moreover, this Divine Self of Absolute Awareness, your real identity, is not “in the world.” No, the world is in You, it floats in Awareness like a dream.
The world is the mysterious, poignant expression of this creative Awareness, which is eternally savoring all kinds of experiences of ItSelf.
Beyond/before/during all forms and experiences, Awareness Alone Is ... right Here, the Ground of All, the Only Being -- It's all God!
May all beings awaken to this Absolute Being, this Divine Love, this Bliss, this Freedom.
now, in that little lot, for myself - faith is no problem
If you somehow feel that you aren’t authentically living your true nature, your real identity as Spiritual Awareness, there is nothing you as an ego-sense can really do. Spiritual realization occurs spontaneously via the Grace of Awareness, not via ego efforts.
Being in conact with or in the presence of a true sage or spiritual mentor is a big help. Enlightenment communicates itself.
Sages have also given some classic messages for the ego-sense to subside, so that awakening to THIS which is “always already the case” may occur:
Just deeply relax and let go of all sense of being a thing-like “me.” Let self dissolve (“die”) into Being. Detach as undisturbed Witness from all sensations, thoughts, memories, emotions, self-images, and whatever else may be fixating you.
Whenever things arise in consciousness, just watch and let go of them, moment by moment... Empty out. Dwell as no-body, no-thing, pure Presence. Just be (and no need to get restless or make a big deal out of just being.)
Be quite simple and uncomplicated, without struggle or striving or posturing. Come from your natural depth, not the surface mind.
Remember that there's no need to become pure Awareness -- you already are THIS in your original truth -- your natural state.
Let body-mind function spontaneously according to the Divine Will, and simply abide as what you fun-damentally always are: the vast, spacious, seamless, unlimited, radiant expanse of Clear Light-Awareness.
Know that, amidst all the changing aspects of your world, you are the Changeless One that has been and will be unchangingly present throughout your life (or lifetimes).
Underlying all perceptible forms, you are the formless Awareness that is “dreaming” these forms. This Awareness is complete and unimprovable -- the pristine emptiness/fullness of Divinity.
Moreover, this Divine Self of Absolute Awareness, your real identity, is not “in the world.” No, the world is in You, it floats in Awareness like a dream.
The world is the mysterious, poignant expression of this creative Awareness, which is eternally savoring all kinds of experiences of ItSelf.
Beyond/before/during all forms and experiences, Awareness Alone Is ... right Here, the Ground of All, the Only Being -- It's all God!
May all beings awaken to this Absolute Being, this Divine Love, this Bliss, this Freedom.
now, in that little lot, for myself - faith is no problem
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uh judgemental?
saying THAT is judgemental
i am kidding but really yeah
we are none perfect, no not even one
and please dont help me remove my splinter
the finger pointing among christians is foretold, yet still saddens me
saying THAT is judgemental
i am kidding but really yeah
we are none perfect, no not even one
and please dont help me remove my splinter
the finger pointing among christians is foretold, yet still saddens me
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Buddhism amounts to Nihilism in the end: nirvana.
Just a means to escape the world of pain, hurt, suffering and death. Very selfless indeed.
Attack the world with the mind as a problem to be solved, is my opinion.
Life is a problem we all have to solve.
Simply things we can contribute to the whole for one another so that we get along better as a whole.
The end or the beginning of the end is any and all forms of escapism from life.
Just a means to escape the world of pain, hurt, suffering and death. Very selfless indeed.
Attack the world with the mind as a problem to be solved, is my opinion.
Life is a problem we all have to solve.
Simply things we can contribute to the whole for one another so that we get along better as a whole.
The end or the beginning of the end is any and all forms of escapism from life.
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oh I disagree, I would also enjoy the thought of em being defragmented too
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Life is a problem we all have to solve.
Simply things we can contribute to the whole for one another so that we get along better as a whole.
I thought they deserved repeating 
Simply things we can contribute to the whole for one another so that we get along better as a whole.
I thought they deserved repeating
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Some of you would have loved it round here last night, Ray would probably have done what I did and just closed the door on it.
But it was very pretty, a frosty cold night and all the carol singers from the nearby church were out doing their thing - I wonder how much punch they drink whilst going from door to door
But it was very pretty, a frosty cold night and all the carol singers from the nearby church were out doing their thing - I wonder how much punch they drink whilst going from door to door
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there ya go - assuming again 
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i feel heard and even handedly responded to
i hope you have also received some food for thought here
it seems so, and thats a good outcome of some conversation
ray-nice quotes
and thank you both for not calling names
and then telling another 'its not nice to call names'
i truly appreciate dialogue
and ken was great as well
(trish got her love yesterday