I'm interested in their welfare, sharing the joys and burdens, hoping to move towards a fairer world.
This fire should not have happened. It wouldn't have happened if more people had been interested in people and moving towards a fairer world.
There are things to learn, things to change and we can only do that by learning and changing ourselves.
I can do that and you can do what you want. I don't have to seek a relationship because you choose to. You don't need to read, or contribute to this thread because I choose to.
The inquiry after the Lakanan House tower block fire in 2009 where 6 people died took four years. The review of that inquiry which should include building regs and fire safety has yet to be published.
The last minister for housing who was sitting on it, lost his seat in the election and was swiftly given the position of chief of staff by Theresa May, meaning that despite being voted out by the public, he is now the prime minister's closest advisor.
Calls for this review to be published immediately have been met with refusal by the Conservative government.
Ima soo wondering how incriminating that review would be if it were made public, especially as there have been calls for those accountable for Grenfell to be tried for corporate manslaughter.
In theory, each flat should be able to contain a fire for about an hour. In a block of flats like Grenfell where there is only one staircase, the 'stay put' policy would enable fire fighters free access to that staircase so they can extinguish the fire.
The stay put policy didn't work in this case because the fire spread rapidly and wasn't contained to the point of origin as it should have been.
Fire alarms would have alerted people, but their escape could have meant that the fire services were unable to access the fire. As some residents reported they couldn't use the stairs due to flames and smoke, it's possible that an evacuation might lead to crowds of people stuck on the staircase, some trying to get up away from flames, some not realising and pushing down from the top.
The issue at Grenfell was multifaceted: the fire spread in a way that it shouldn't have possibly because fire safeguards used to contain incidents were compromised during refurbishment; there was only one staircase, the council having refused to go to the expense of adding a fire escape to the 1970's building; there appears to have been little protocol for such an emergency and no drills at all; there were no fire alarms, or sprinklers and concerns had been expressed by residents about emergency lighting.
With many high rise buildings, some of which have the same cladding, some of which was fitted by the same contractors, another incident is likely to be even more disastrous as residents will likely and understandably ignore all instructions for their safety.
Six of the dead have been provisionally identified, one man by the proximity of his passport to his remains.
Theresa May has defended her decision not to meet residents with a statement, only it appeared evasive and without explanation.
She's still coming under criticism, Harriet Harman, the former deputy Labour leader writing 'Not OK to speak at them via TV'.
As I said before, I think perhaps May's personal security might have been compromised had she come into contact with residents with emotions running so high. I do hope Labour MPs aren't manipulating this situation to their advantage in a bid to bring her down.
On the other hand, if she can't speak frankly and honestly about this, what hope do people have of an honest and open interaction regarding the catastrophic events at Grenfell?
I don:t think this is a time for political games, I'm not sure Labour politicians need to and I feel it would be damaging to the appearance of Labour integrity. As a collective nation, I think we could do with some people we feel we can trust right now.
I would argue that the cladding has been thoroughly tested in the most ideal conditions.
Lakanal House, a similar tower block in London to Grenfell, went up in flames in 2009 killing three women and three children.
Our Conservative government are yet to publish some information coming out of that inquiry where the rapid spread of the fire was linked to insufficient safeguarding fire blocks between floors of cladding and where the cladding burned through in 4 1/2 minutes.
There have been numerous other tower block fires across the world where a rapid spread has been linked to the external cladding.
I think the political ramifications of this may go beyond changes in fire safety legislation in residential buildings, Soph.
I suspect Theresa May couldn't risk coming into close contact with residents and volunteers for her own personal safety.
Rightly or wrongly, a lot of grief angry is being directed at the Conservative party. Anger has already spilled over in the streets directed at what has been deemed as intrusive photo-journalism and the police have had to intervene. I should imagine preparations are being made in case of riots.
We were in an unstable and potentially volatile political position after the election and before this happened.
There seems to be a wide age range of people missing, but yes, two are in their 80's, one on the 20th floor with diabetes who has trouble negotiating stairs and one man with an injury who encouraged his wife and children to escape, but remained in the hope of being rescued by fire services.
One man is thought to be missing after getting his family out, but then going back to help neighbours.
Part of the issue with missing persons appears to be lack of co-ordination, or information. One man went searching for his cousin's family and found one child after begging and cajoling a nurse who took pity on him and allowed them to see a child fitting his description of her. A few beds away he recognised the child's brother, seriously unwell in a coma. Hospital staff were unaware the two children were brother and sister as people aren't being identified. The man's cousin, husband and six month baby daughter are still missing. He complained that the incident is being treated like a terrorist attack, rather than a civil disaster.
Whilst there has been quite a bit coverage of the baby being caught after being thrown from the 9th or 10th floor (a number of people are still missing from the 10th floor) it appears quite a few children were dropped out of windows by parents begging onlookers to save their children, assuming they were going to perish themselves.
I've counted reports of 20 people still missing. They appear to reside in either one of two floors, or have flat numbers that are numerically close.
It's thought there may be other people who lived alone who may be missing, but haven't had friends, or family using social media to appeal for information.
Theresa May has visited fire service personnel at the scene to check they have the resources they need to begin the painstaking, dangerous and inevitably harrowing final search of the building. It has been reported that she refused to meet with residents.
It's been confirmed that 12 people are dead, 18 are receiving critical care in hospital, but incredibly, fire fighters have reached to top floor rescuing people seen at their windows, some holding children.
There are some small, difficult to reach areas that are still on fire and no more survivors are expected to be found.
It's incredible that the emergency services managed to rescue so many. It's thought that there were around 500 people living in the building which appeared to be almost totally ablaze.
According to the documents from the planning application, fire safeguards which would stop the spread of fire from floor to floor were temporarily removed during refurbishment.
It's not clear at this stage if they were replaced.
There a lot of men's profiles where they state they're looking for someone with a similar interest in travelling.
It has never crossed my mind that they might be looking for someone (or me, personally) to fund their expeditions.
I think, 'you're barking up the wrong tree contacting me!'
I get itchy feet sitting still and behaving myself on the 13 minute train commute to Cardiff. I get painfully uncomfortable sitting in my friend's van in less than an hour due to an old be fracture. I don't want to eat beans on toast for a year to save up for package holiday.
They're my choices, my foibles. I don't expect anyone to change their lifestyle choices and dreams because I'm so mesmerising.
But if I happen to come across people to spend my time with, in a way which suits, I'll consider myself most fortunate.
If not, then I'll find something else to do. No one owes me a lifestyle and I don't owe anyone theirs.
Thankyou Gunman, but I can't click on the link. I think that's the quote, although I heard a simpler translation.
As for corruption of religion, people will always interpret from their own value framework, ignore the bits they want to ignore and expound the bits which suit them to expound.
Everyone thinks their god is on their side when they kill and maim in war. It's good to drop the mother of all bombs, but evil to carry one. Thou shallt not kill is a flexible rule; the stone it was written on had grey areas, it seems.
It's okay, Witty. Toxicology reports have confirmed that Red has already scoffed way to much cake.
The toxicology reports are inconclusive, however, regarding whether Theresa May has eaten her hat yet. I suspect she might be gagging on it as we speak, but at least that means the most vulnerable in society won't have to stomach her daylight robbery.
My 6 year old granddaughter was trying engage my interest in a rather hideous My Little Pony which has various plastic hairdos which can be alternated.
"Guess her name! " she said.
" Giblet", I replied.
"No! Try again! " she whined.
"Gizzard", I said.
"It begins with R..." she wheedled.
"Rancid", I said.
"No!"she exclaimed indignantly, "It has to be a GIRL'S name!!!"
online today!jac_the_gripper Forum Posts (5,363)
RE: Towering inferno in England
I'm here because I like people.I'm interested in people.
I'm interested in their welfare, sharing the joys and burdens, hoping to move towards a fairer world.
This fire should not have happened. It wouldn't have happened if more people had been interested in people and moving towards a fairer world.
There are things to learn, things to change and we can only do that by learning and changing ourselves.
I can do that and you can do what you want. I don't have to seek a relationship because you choose to. You don't need to read, or contribute to this thread because I choose to.