It had crossed my mind that the distinction between a terror attack and a terrorist attack might be whether the perpetrator had links with an organised crime group of some description, but I think the knobend who murdered the people at Manchester was thought to have a committed the crime alone, wasn't he?
As I understand it, art therapy can be as simple, or complex as any talking, or other emotional therapy.
It's particularly suitable for people who struggle to articulate verbally, so that might include children, or those unable to verbalise their trauma for any number of reasons. Some people's cognitive processing is simply more visual, or tactile than others.
Art therapy can take many forms, using many different materials. Having attended a seminar about art therapy which included snippets of case studies, it's quite incredible how people can make breakthroughs and progress with their personal development with the aid of a lump of clay.
A lot of talking therapies will use concrete tools, for example a collection of stones, shells, or buttons, for use in a symbolic representation of a dynamic. It can externalism a trauma or difficulty allowing a client to view their history maybe more objectively for a moment in time. It can be surprisingly powerful.
Of course, individuals have different needs, or approaches which should be client lead. Therapists who, or centres which can provide a number of tools for clients to use can provide a more client lead approach.
The group of people who have volunteered their skills for those affected by the fire have INVITED people to use those facilities if they wish. No one will be forced to use a voluntary service and I imagine given the scale of those affected, they're going to be hard pushed to meet the demand. There's only so much a therapist can do in a day for a number of reasons.
Those affected may be survivors, but they may also include family members, friends, evacuees from neighbouring buildings, witnesses, other tower block residents who may be experiencing a high level of anxiety for their own family's safety, volunteers and other people working in support roles.
If the service can provide some support for the support workers, or people searching for loved ones alone, so they can carry on with their roles, then it's a very valuable resource. I doubt very much they're expecting to 'cure' survivors - that's not how it works.
The Therapists in turn will be supported emotionally, practically and ethically by supervision. The chances are they will be paying for this themselves, unless they are affiliated to some kind of charity who can afford to pay the high costs of supervision, or supervisor's also volunteer their time.
The number of dead, or missing presumed dead has risen to 79.
Five people have been formally identified, five people reported missing have been found alive and well.
The death toll is expected to rise, but not as dramatically as it has over the last few days.
It may not be possible to identify all the bodies. After a description of three children disappearing in an explosion after being seen banging on a window, that may mean some families may not get to bury their children.
The Metropolitan police commander Stuart Cundy has been to the top floor of the building and has said that it's hard to describe the scenes of devastation. He is reported to be struggling to maintain his composure during press announcements.
Well Hex, you seem to have got yourself in a right old pickle with that one.
Where do I start?
Okay, I didn't know anything about the renovation work carried out at Grenfell, or the fire risks until it burnt down.
When I wrote in the first person using Grenfell as an analogy it was in the general sense and I didn't mean me personally. (I think there's a word for that and if anyone can help me out with that, I'd appreciate it.)
My point was that in each scenario, there were issues of tolerance, or intolerance: some people knew of the fire risks and tolerated them; some people knew of the risks to their personal safety when they ran into the fire, but those risks were more tolerable than watching people suffer and die; and so on.
If you make a direct causal link with intolerance and mental illness and then look at those scenarios, it becomes plain that using the word 'intolerance' without context becomes insufficient.
I have never claimed absolutism when it comes to tolerance. I have never come across anybody who has because it's plainly ridiculous. We are all intolerant of some things, and rightly so.
Discriminating between the tolerable and intolerable is a part of survival and community; it's a part of how we function as a herd.
Now, in the scenario of the government possibly sitting on information which could have saved lives, but not acting on it because of a potential negative impact on business profits, there was also a discrimination between the tolerable and intolerable: which is best for the survival of the herd? Which is in the interests of others and which is in the interests of the self? Which is in the interests of the people I value, or the people I don't value?
'Intolerance' is an arbitrary category without context. Mental illness is arbitrary in as much as it's viewed within the context of knowledge and culture.
Trying to premise your argument with a definition of the word 'tolerate' is not enough to describe the complexities of intolerance in context, therefore your link between intolerance and mental illness cannot stand true without context.
...the practise of cladding tower blocks in flammable materials, refusing to put in a fire escape and sprinklers because it's too costly, neglecting to ensure fire isolation safeguards are in place, neglecting to check and service fire alarms and emergency lighting and not only ignoring tenants concerns, but threatening them with legal action if they carry on...
...does that mean I must have a mental illness?
How about if that tower block goes up in flames? Am I mentally ill if I cannot tolerate the screams of children, or the sight of children disappearing from the windows they're banging on because something has exploded and wiped them off the face of the Earth?
How about if I'm so intolerant that I feel the need to interfere? Maybe I might rush into the fire wearing breathing apparatus, but not sure if the building is going to collapse, or if I'm going to get out alive. Surely, that kind of interference and intolerance must be a sign of mental illness? It's utter madness!
Where is the line between justified, acceptable, NECESSARY intolerance and inappropriate judgementalism?
At what point does my interference render me mentally ill? Before, during, or after people die in terror?
How about if I sit on information which might lead to changes in legislation which will save lives, but interfere with business profits? Does my lack of action, my non-interference in other people's lives render me the most mentally healthy of them all?
I would suggest intolerance has a purpose. Sometimes it serves our own needs, sometimes the needs of others and sometimes both.
I would suggest that if there is a link between intolerance and mental illness, it's correlative, rather than causal. Sometimes, perhaps people seek targets for their intolerance to deflect from intolerance directed at themselves, either by others, or themselves.
It's perhaps self-intolerance, self-hatred which is more likely causal with respect to certain types of mental illness.
I was going to say that my opinion of you is unimportant.
Part of personal development and the process of self-actualisation is to rely upon and trust the self, rather than have one's thoughts, feelings, behaviours and choices swayed by external judgement.
But you beat me to it, Pedro.
I assume from your subsequent posts that you were making this very point.
Local people have set up an emotional and therapy support centre, aware that NHS mental health services are already overstretched (read: utterly underfunded and inadequate).
Art therapy is available for children and counsellors have volunteered for anyone affected by the disaster who would like to go and have a chat.
Theresa May has admitted support services on the ground have been woefully inadequate and has pledged to take action, after a two and a half hour meeting with survivors, residents and community leaders at Downing Street this afternoon.
It's hardly likely there will be any funds left from public donations, particularly if the government doesn't upscale it's pledge, given the scale of the crisis, the number of dead which may run into triple figures and the number of families who have been left with only the pyjamas on their back.
Fortunately, various crowd funding, newspaper, Red Cross and other appeals have been launched to support those affected by the recent murders in Manchester and London.
I've not found any information regarding the government's financial support of these families. I'd appreciate it if someone else were to locate this information.
London Fire Brigade have updated their earlier statement saying that the train lines have been closed while they secure debris in danger of falling on the track. They are not currently fearful of the structural integrity of the building as as a whole.
A police press briefing scheduled for 1pm has been postponed to 3.15pm.
Survivors, residents, faith leaders and volunteers are at Downing Street to meet with Theresa May.
It has been reported that some people are still sleeping on floors of emergency shelters, four days after the fire.
The local shopping complex offered to rehouse everyone and pay for their needs indefinitely, but the local council turned them down.
Train lines above and below ground in the area have been closed following renewed fears that the tower may collapse as recovery work by the fire brigades continues.
Jeremy Corbyn has written an open letter to Theresa May outlining a number of expectations, including that survivors are not re-charged for replacing documentation such as passports and asylum papers. He has called for funeral costs to be covered, as well as visas and costs granted to family members overseas so they may attend funerals and inquiry hearings.
The government has pledged £5M to her help those affected rebuild their lives. The public have raised over £3M so far as well as tonnes and tonnes of clothes, food and toiletries as donations continue to pour in.
As further justice for Grenfell planned for today has been postponed, but many thousands are expected to attend a March on Whitehall to protest the possibility of a deal between the conservatives and the right wing DUP.
The burnt out Grenfell tower has been described as a ghastly tomb, symbolic of the Conservative's austerity measures over the Cameron-Osborne-May era.
Fire fighters have described their hellish experience, fearful that the building would collapse and hearing screams in all directions, especially from children, but not being able to see where people were to be able to get to them. One crew member said, the sight of the fire engines below must have given people hope that we'd actually be able to get them out.
It wasn't just the survivors who were displaced on Wednesday night. Dwellings close by the tower were also evacuated amid fears that the tower might collapse.
Some people stayed with friends and family, but there were stories coming out about people walking the streets, sleeping in the park, or in their cars and camping until temporary accommodation could be found.
Yesterday, (Friday) people were still using church halls, community centres and the local sports centre for refuge. The public and local businesses organised these temporary shelters with hundreds of mattresses on the floor.
Food, clothing and toiletries have been donated by the public and local businesses. A local mobile phone shop opened its doors for people to make phone calls and charge their phones.
Likewise, the emotional support has been provided by volunteers, centering around local churches and community centres. Only the families of the confirmed dead have had support from police liason officers.
It's been chaotic and unco-ordinated, an ex-army serviceman who volunteered describing the scenes as bad as anything he'd ever seen in war.
The local council have now provided temporary accommodation in hostels and hotels for everyone displaced, but have yet to be seen at the scene.
There was a report that some survivors had hand delivered letters from the council with threats of legal action for anti-social behaviour because their children had been playing ball games in prohibited areas around the tower before it burnt down. The letters were dated on Wednesday, so were written while the building was ablaze, while people were dying and while those pesky children were being thrown out of windows by their desperate parents.
Protests are uncommon in the UK foyer these days because of police heavy handed tactics. People are usually too frightened to even peacefully protest.
I'm glad the people are protesting, too. I'm glad they are able to with the police taking a much softer approach than usual, dressed in uniform, or overalls rather than riot gear.
Emotions are running so understandably high, however, I still have concerns that people are going to get hurt.
People are angry and in tears outside the church Theresa May has just visited.
Mimicking her election slogan, one man said the burnt out tower block was more strong and stable than 'that woman' 's government.
Some 500 people have marched to Downing Street where the general secretary of the fire brigades union said the lessons the government said they wanted to learn from Grenfell were learned 40 years ago.
Protesters have left Kensington Town Hall and to join the protest back at the tower.
An angry member of the public has called on people to March to Downing Street tonight. How he said Theresa May is not fit to be the prime minister.
Earlier, Theresa May visited a church involved in supporting the local residents affected by the fire. She is reported to have entered and left the building without speaking to residents waiting outside for her visit.
Yes, I believe the government has opened a public inquiry and Scotland Yard a criminal one.
I think Corbyn has called for residents and those affected to have proper legal representation which apparently they didn't have after the Lakanan House fire. Perhaps he was saying that there should be a public inquest, rather than people having lawyers.
It's the very least that can be done. Having had control taken away from them in so many ways, on so many levels, further subjugation during the recovery phase is not acceptable.
I doubt they will get it though, unless the present government collapses.
online today!jac_the_gripper Forum Posts (5,363)
RE: London: Van crashes into pedestrians outside Finsbury Park mosque
I don't applaud our prime minister for calling Darren Osborne Road terrorist. It's inflammatory and it bestows power on the perpetrator.I don't think any of these murderers should be given the status of terrorist.
I think our prime minister should have called them all knobends.