Chaos in Russia

Seems it's over. Be interesting to see what Prigozhin got.

The Ernst Rohm of Russia. Up and coming paramilitary monster threatening the old guard

Maybe this helps...[ . Seinfeld scienter.

Chaos squared..

It figures...link won't work...see rense.com.

Most Russians who fall foul of a Russian leader have a choice of countries to go to in the west but Prigozhin doesn’t have those options because of his operations in Ukraine. Belarus is pro Russia so that is a poor choice. I still think that he could be charged by Russia with treason and made to be the sole instigator of the war crimes on the ICC list in Ukraine.
Isn't he walking straight into a trap in going to Belarus.
The African presidents will be pleased if he is no longer fighting in Ukraine. Maybe one of them would take him in.
Just mulling it over. There must be other options.

“All of us are ready to die. All 25,000, and then another 25,000,” he said, after earlier accusing the Russian top brass of having launched an attack on their camps in Ukraine, where the mercenaries are fighting on behalf of Moscow.
Prigozhin claimed he wanted justice for 2,000 Wagner troops he claimed had been killed in attacks by the traditional Russian military.
“Huge numbers of our fighters, of our combat comrades, have been killed,” he said. “The evil that the military leadership of the country bears must be stopped. They neglect the lives of soldiers.

“Over the past few months, Wagner Group played a vital role in the Russian attack on Bakhmut, on Soledar, and this conflict with the Ministry of Defence has been brewing for a lot of time.

In Ukraine, Prigozhin’s mercenaries have become a major force in the war, fighting as counterparts to the Russian army in battles with Ukrainian forces.

That includes Wagner fighters taking Bakhmut, the city where the bloodiest and longest battles have taken place. By last month, Wagner Group and Russian forces appeared to have largely won Bakhmut, a victory with strategically slight importance for Russia despite the cost in lives. Prigozhin has said that 20,000 of his men died in Bakhmut, about half of them inmates recruited from Russia’s prisons.

Wagner launched a major mutiny in Russia overnight, seizing control of the Southern Military District headquarters in the city of Rostov-on-Don, as well as advancing towards Moscow. The insurrection was stopped late on Saturday, following talks between Prigozhin and Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, with the PMC leader agreeing to return his units to their “field camps.”

A strange strange business, and it does make one wonder about Putin's hold on power. The Wagner thing has always been head-scratchingly strange, and Prigozhin still breathes. So does Navalny for that matter, but then he never had power to be of real concern to Putin.

This Preggo guy is a bit of a lose cannon.
And Putin is chill.
Preggo likes to jump up and down to get his men some respect,
he got it again I suppose.
- - -
So, back to 'normal' (war) now.

Poor Ukrainians, gonna be grinded up till Nato finally say enough is enough.

Looks like the Leopards made no difference.
One thing is to drive it, even I can do that.. another is to master it.
You'll probably be annihilated before you get the hang of it.
I hear them Russians mine the fileds just after where the Tanks and troopse moved forward,
leaving them trapped for artillery rain.

I personally think all top army men respect Putin.
That is my hunch. So no coup.

... but on the other hand, you'd have to think the prognosis for Prigozhin is pretty poor

What do you mean? Prigozhin has his pretty strong group under him that he represent almost like as some kind of "union leader". He go to almost any length to forward their needs.
He was not gonna try a real coup, it was all to make the deciding generals in Moscow take his groups needs into consideration, like a "we're pulling out of Bakhmut 2.0" threat.
In order for his guys to not always get the worst deal.

Thats how I see it. Not a real power struggle for the leadership of the country.
jmo

Most of my insight is thanks to Colonel MacGregor, my insider to go to.
I think the Wagner group leader got fed up his boys being cannon fodder numero uno.

Here is a thought that came to me today: most Russians probably (esp a bit higher up)
see Wagner as a bunch that is best lost in battle...
(Metallicas 'disposible heroes' comes to mind)
Only one helping them save losses is their leader Prigozhin.

Butcher, about my second part: yes I'm pretty certain Nato will not go all in.
So Russian will 'win'.

Yea.. I hear them speculate this and that way on the news here.
A lot of it is whishful thinking.
-
My prediction for what's next: Russia will move slightly harder ahead now, and has got to get more regular troops involved, cos Wagner refused to carry the whole load.

interesting article!
A bit long,might have to take it with a grain of salt like everything coming out of that region lately!



Coup d’Etat? Putin, Prigozhin, Gerasimov and Xi

@ten No, opinion is not based on knowledge, but rather on understanding, thought and information. It is true Western press displays clear bias, and perhaps you could claim @moth may not be aware. But it is equally true that language and locality also carry their own heavy and equally one-sided bias, of which you may be wilfully ignorant. It is perfectly justifiable to ponder on whether 'the writing is on the wall' for Putin. Like Tiger, I too frequently refer to aljazeera - but you refer to them as having Western bias, do you? Really?

@ten no, again. Information is NOT knowledge, but should be a source of knowledge. I know English is not your mother tongue, but I suggest you inspect the two concepts in your native language. I know that every prime number 4n+1 can be represented as the sum of two squares in exactly one way, as in 41=5^2+4^2 or 61=5^2+6^2 - some maths theorems of Fermat are the source of that knowledge.
As an ex journalist you should be aware of such language distinctions, otherwise that experience gives you less understanding than it should.

People are not all the same at the end of the day and the Russians are not going to leap at the chance to be just like us. The west needs to get over it's 90s buzz, it's end of history line where everything is worked out and what's worked out is that everybody wants to be just like us. They want certain things we are able to do, such as producing enough ammunition for your soldiers, this is not the same thing as wanting to be us

Unlike Putins circle of KGB friends in government chosen by him Prigozhin was not KGB. He came into favour with Putin and can easily fall foul of him.
It looks like Putin has taken his private army with one phone call. We don't know this for sure, we will see.

I don't see Putin damaged by this storm in a teacup.
Prigozhin had to go and the Chechen leader might be following if he ever steps out of line.
The next step is to take Prigozhin's wealth. Then with charges served either hand him over to the ICC or give him a job in Siberia.