Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share ! (814)
One man's geurilla fighter is another's terrorist.
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gozoman2: OK got something in the microwave so got a few more minutes....
I was one of the first on this Island to carry the black and white chequered (forgive my lapse of memory...but forgot the correct term) 'kaftan' round my neck as a sign of protest on the violation of the palestinian rights in the Middle East. Late seventies this was. People used to refer to me as the crazy guy with a blanket wraped round his neck.
My country was one of the first to publicly denounce atrocities perpetuated by the Israeli state in confrontation of this people.
However, I will continue to state that I will never condone a group that states as it's main item on the agenda, the eradication of a free and democratic state, just as much as I would not condone anybody doing that even to the US...which in my mkind is the foremost state that is guilty of committing crimes against humanity globally.
That is not the way to go.
Yes, teaching children to carry arms and get them used to wearing vests of explosives and blow themselves up is a terrorist act, not in the political sense, but for humanity itself.
It is vile, it goes against everything that I believe in and fight for. Injustice has to be achieved by different means.
And Hamas is doing exactly that.
I was one of the first on this Island to carry the black and white chequered (forgive my lapse of memory...but forgot the correct term) 'kaftan' round my neck as a sign of protest on the violation of the palestinian rights in the Middle East. Late seventies this was. People used to refer to me as the crazy guy with a blanket wraped round his neck.
My country was one of the first to publicly denounce atrocities perpetuated by the Israeli state in confrontation of this people.
However, I will continue to state that I will never condone a group that states as it's main item on the agenda, the eradication of a free and democratic state, just as much as I would not condone anybody doing that even to the US...which in my mkind is the foremost state that is guilty of committing crimes against humanity globally.
That is not the way to go.
Yes, teaching children to carry arms and get them used to wearing vests of explosives and blow themselves up is a terrorist act, not in the political sense, but for humanity itself.
It is vile, it goes against everything that I believe in and fight for. Injustice has to be achieved by different means.
And Hamas is doing exactly that.
Your point is very valid to my eyes, but do not forget who started attacking entire populations and how the madness has escalated: form one side the democratic and peaceful state with all the means of the world and on the other side the desperate that face a tremendous enemy. You must remember the first steps of the rising Israeli state and maybe the problem of who was first: the hen or the egg would have a solution.
It can be thought that in the heat of the fight added to the inherent nature of human beings, Hamas leaders are doing things that may be eroding their own cause in a terrible way but I also ask for a very impartial view of what Israel is doing to hurt your sensitiviness - And I think that is missing in you now. Correct me if I am wrong. Is that democratic state just defending itself? Are the origin of the atrocities in the Arabic side -in organisations like Hamas- and the democratic state is just responding to that?
Here I read a post of someone who is a big US-Bush-lover bigot (not brave enough to be an open bigot and by the way he is not from the US) who stated the tremendous value of the democratic nature of Israel. Well, for countries like mine where we have learnt a lot about the Western type of democracy I can only smile at that observation. Democracy is just a system of government functional to the interests of the US and cronies. It is, on the other hand, an insult to any basic intelligence. Democracy, government of people? I need a break of course!!! It is just the government of the rich companies and speculators through manipulation of the mob. And those rich ones are with their hands well into all these problems. As it has happened in most of the modern conflicts mankind has experienced.
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gozoman2: apologies:
injustice has to be fought by other means....
injustice has to be fought by other means....
For example?
I mean given the savagery of that fight.
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Apostophe: One man's geurilla fighter is another's terrorist.
if we are to hope for a better future for mankind there is no place for either.
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Prince_Charming_: This is Isreal. they did build thier state at bodies of Arabs
yes agreed. and the US media being controlled by "Israeli frienly" for ces they make it seem as if Arabs and muslims are the onlu ones outraged by this.
Israelis are murderers.
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gozoman2: apologies:
injustice has to be fought by other means....
injustice has to be fought by other means....
The injustice of the israel response maybe, imagine in five years hamas's crude rockets have killed between 8 and 18 people and in just five days israel has murdered 400 palestians and when you look at that in 2008 even with a 6month ceasfire Israel has murdered a further 1,000 palestinas you begin to get a clearer picture in regards to their ludicrous 'defence' dont make me vomit
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gozoman2: if we are to hope for a better future for mankind there is no place for either.
Unfortunately it's happening in Irak currently and soon in Iran - the illegal invasion of other peoples countries. The crux.
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Apostophe: Unfortunately it's happening in Irak currently and soon in Iran - the illegal invasion of other peoples countries. The crux.
HOPE....there is now a man called Obama at the helm of the most powerful nation of them all....
and yes, I believe....
YES WE CAN....
peace to all and goodnight...
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gozoman2: HOPE....there is now a man called Obama at the helm of the most powerful nation of them all....
and yes, I believe....
YES WE CAN....
peace to all and goodnight...
and yes, I believe....
YES WE CAN....
peace to all and goodnight...
In agreement but he is only one man - let's pray.
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seamushan: Hamas are teaching their children to hate the word jew i feel that this is perfectly natural considering the actions of the israelis state during the last few days and throughout history even take into consideration when Israeli annexed even more arab land for themselves during the six day war.
Imagine this contrevened UN the attainment of land in such a manner yet nothing was said i wonder why?lol. Its amusing viewing the disparity in reactions of the west to russia invading south ossetia and to the more controlled muted reactions at the moment to the murder of fellow human beings in gaza
Imagine this contrevened UN the attainment of land in such a manner yet nothing was said i wonder why?lol. Its amusing viewing the disparity in reactions of the west to russia invading south ossetia and to the more controlled muted reactions at the moment to the murder of fellow human beings in gaza
Seamushan,
If a people teaches his children to hate, we are already having a problem. It isn't necessary to look any further into other issues, trainng children to hate and fight as soldiers since the age we learned to read in our infancy says it all. No more comments.End of story!.
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seamushan: The injustice of the israel response maybe, imagine in five years hamas's crude rockets have killed between 8 and 18 people and in just five days israel has murdered 400 palestians and when you look at that in 2008 even with a 6month ceasfire Israel has murdered a further 1,000 palestinas you begin to get a clearer picture in regards to their ludicrous 'defence' dont make me vomit
I appreciate the energy of your points. In 2006 I spent two months at Israel doing some tech courses. I witnessed the arrival of some of the troops that took part in the Lebanon war. They were defeated, they looked defeated and inside my heart I was touched by thinking of the bravery shown by the Palestinian fighters. I did not care much about Hamas or other parties (I am basically anarchist and rejectful of leaders)involved in the fight (Hezbollah for example) but I just thought of the young Palestinian fighter inside a trench firing and lurking until the bitter end just because there is not much future for him. I also saw the poor dogs the Israeli soldiers were downloading, those that were used in the rubble-battles. I thought of the way they were sent to the dugouts to disclose the guerrilla positions and I thought of all the suffering of animals and human beings. In my mind I saluted the victory of the Muslim fighters, and how they had learnt to buffer all the bullying mechanisms of war their enemies have designed all these years.
Anyway, I appreciate your energy but I just think that here discussing with Gozoman -who is kind enough to keep a good level of discussion- it is constructive that those that have opposite views give an example that we can present arguments and not simple insults or cowardly pack-attacks to rivals as other people always do here.
There is a lot to discuss and learn, and I also hope for the final victory of the Palestinians, perhaps one day.
I ask for your forgiveness if I dare to say this.
Thank you.
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gozoman2: If I had to be living in one of the villages of the Negev, and out of the blue, Hamas decide to break an internationally arranged and approve truce, and start shooting rockets on my village, yes, I would expect my government to go and blow up the areas that the rockets are coming from.
It is a choice of Hamas to do so within the civilian zones of Gaza.
It is a choice of Hamas to do so within the civilian zones of Gaza.
I agree here!
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No, you're wrong! it's the hamas who is killing civilians! they will fire rockets from civilian neighborhoods and when Israel retaliates, it's always precise! it will go directly where the hamas fired it's rockets! so who's killing civilians? Hamas should go to the frontline and not hide behind civilian lines! they are the biggest coward!
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You must be kidding... suppose someone came into your house and threading to kill your family, you sure your not sitting on your brains.
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Antjo39: Permit me to get into your discussion:
So there was not Israeli agression related to the rocket launching. What about the blockade of the Gaza strip?
Israel claims that it was to avoid the smuggling of weapons, but is this not by itself an act of agression? Blockade is an act of war...or is it just that they think they can give pieces of land to the Palestinians in order to make them shut up but in the meantime they still think they can do whatever they want with those territories.
Broad version of things please! not partial views that only sound like a boring humdrum "Hamas, irrational, terrorist, etc. Israel, reasonable, sensitive, peace-seeking and respectful."
(Jesus I should be paid by the Zionist to make propaganda for them!!! )
So there was not Israeli agression related to the rocket launching. What about the blockade of the Gaza strip?
Israel claims that it was to avoid the smuggling of weapons, but is this not by itself an act of agression? Blockade is an act of war...or is it just that they think they can give pieces of land to the Palestinians in order to make them shut up but in the meantime they still think they can do whatever they want with those territories.
Broad version of things please! not partial views that only sound like a boring humdrum "Hamas, irrational, terrorist, etc. Israel, reasonable, sensitive, peace-seeking and respectful."
(Jesus I should be paid by the Zionist to make propaganda for them!!! )
Antjo39,
The Zionist, yes, they should, perhaps, but people should not forget that the Israeli people are not Zionist. Not all, only a few. Most of the Israeli adopt the Thora which says that no blood has to be shead for a piece of land. They are pacifist in their religion. I happen to work both with Israel and muslim countries in the aeronauical field, visited the contries, work directly with them and I've come to know them along the years:)Believe me!))
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SophieDarin: Antjo39,
The Zionist, yes, they should, perhaps, but people should not forget that the Israeli people are not Zionist. Not all, only a few. Most of the Israeli adopt the Thora which says that no blood has to be shead for a piece of land. They are pacifist in their religion. I happen to work both with Israel and muslim countries in the aeronauical field, visited the contries, work directly with them and I've come to know them along the years:)Believe me!))
The Zionist, yes, they should, perhaps, but people should not forget that the Israeli people are not Zionist. Not all, only a few. Most of the Israeli adopt the Thora which says that no blood has to be shead for a piece of land. They are pacifist in their religion. I happen to work both with Israel and muslim countries in the aeronauical field, visited the contries, work directly with them and I've come to know them along the years:)Believe me!))
"Most of the Israeli adopt the Thora which says that no blood has to be shead for a piece of land" 
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seamushan: "Most of the Israeli adopt the Thora which says that no blood has to be shead for a piece of land"
Yes, something the extremists cannot conceive.
Read the Thora, it won't harm u, you know?
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SophieDarin: Yes, something the extremists cannot conceive.
Read the Thora, it won't harm u, you know?
Read the Thora, it won't harm u, you know?
Most of the Israeli adopt the Thora which says that no blood has to be shead for a piece of land
Are you serious?? Are these the same peace loving israelis who have murdered 400 people in five days this week alone?. Are these the same peace loving Israelis who who have killed 1,000 palestians despite a 6 month ceasefire?. Are these the same peace loving israelis who murdered thousands when invading the lebannon before been beaten back?.
No blood shed over any land?? of that you are correct because its not only blood being shed over land but rivers of it
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Antjo39: I appreciate the energy of your points. In 2006 I spent two months at Israel doing some tech courses. I witnessed the arrival of some of the troops that took part in the Lebanon war. They were defeated, they looked defeated and inside my heart I was touched by thinking of the bravery shown by the Palestinian fighters. I did not care much about Hamas or other parties (I am basically anarchist and rejectful of leaders)involved in the fight (Hezbollah for example) but I just thought of the young Palestinian fighter inside a trench firing and lurking until the bitter end just because there is not much future for him. I also saw the poor dogs the Israeli soldiers were downloading, those that were used in the rubble-battles. I thought of the way they were sent to the dugouts to disclose the guerrilla positions and I thought of all the suffering of animals and human beings. In my mind I saluted the victory of the Muslim fighters, and how they had learnt to buffer all the bullying mechanisms of war their enemies have designed all these years.
Anyway, I appreciate your energy but I just think that here discussing with Gozoman -who is kind enough to keep a good level of discussion- it is constructive that those that have opposite views give an example that we can present arguments and not simple insults or cowardly pack-attacks to rivals as other people always do here.
There is a lot to discuss and learn, and I also hope for the final victory of the Palestinians, perhaps one day.
I ask for your forgiveness if I dare to say this.
Thank you.
Anyway, I appreciate your energy but I just think that here discussing with Gozoman -who is kind enough to keep a good level of discussion- it is constructive that those that have opposite views give an example that we can present arguments and not simple insults or cowardly pack-attacks to rivals as other people always do here.
There is a lot to discuss and learn, and I also hope for the final victory of the Palestinians, perhaps one day.
I ask for your forgiveness if I dare to say this.
Thank you.
I find it rather interesting that you just happened to be in Israel studying tech courses considering you appear to be vehemently anti Jewish if I may say. Israel must have given you a very good sense of security to move about and study in relative peace. Their education must be very superior or else you would have gone elsewhere. However this is not the main reason I am writing here.
Here is a scenario that I hope would never happen to you in life if you go to Israel again.
If you go there to study or live there and you are abducted within Israel's border and brought over to one of Israel's bordering neighbors and tortured, no doubt you would want the Jews to go over and rescue you, no matter what the cost. Ask yourself, would your native south american country send over a troop surge to challenge the terrorists and rescue you? Or would the Jew or Zionist would be your best friend for life if they rescued you? So if Israel did not defend it's borders from the terrorist factions that continue to attack it and occassionally slip through, I doubt that you would have felt comfortable enough to go over and study. Imagine a country that can't defend it's borders. The terrorists enjoy decapitating their captives and you would wonder just when you would die. I doubt their prisons are loaded with many foreign prisoners but yet Israel is loaded with them. After your rescue, would you still think so highly of the poor palestinians plight in the trenches or would you now be thanking the Zionist Israelis for their valiant rescue and putting their lives on the line to protect your life and it's Israeli citizens, many of whom are different nationalities and religions and are not even Jews. I believe you would be feeling sorry for the poor Israelis in the trenches at this point.
As you know, it is not uncommon for foreigners to be abducted in some of the Arabic countries and be murdered and decapitated right on TV for all to see. Sad if you happened to be one of them decapitated.
I would hope that you will never ever be abducted anywhere in the world where you would have gone peacefully to pursue an education or a vaccation. But this is a reality and my posting is meant to be a reality check. No disrespect to you in spite of your vehement anti Jewish ravings. You are entitled to your views. Many of the postings are anti Jewish in general
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injustice has to be fought by other means....