Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share ! (814)
rocketqueengeelong, Victoria Australia23 Threads 1 Polls 2,003 Poststhere seems to be alot of misinformation and irrational argument here.........please can we keep to the facts
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jbibiza: This is where I have a problem... throughout history people have been conquered and lost lands so the history doesn´t really have a lot to do with anything. Jewish is a religion and they come from all parts of Europe... what other religion has ever been given a country of their own? The only reason that it happened in the first place was guilt in Europe over the horrendous acts against those of the Jewish faith during the war and no country wanting to open their doors to displaced Jews.
The people occupying that region had their homes and business´s taken from them... not through being defeated in war but through a decision made by world leaders that they had no say in. Since that initial decisions Israel has continued to push the borders of their country to gain additional land and all this is condoned because of some ancient claim to the land?
I´m sorry but it just makes no sense to me what so ever.
The people occupying that region had their homes and business´s taken from them... not through being defeated in war but through a decision made by world leaders that they had no say in. Since that initial decisions Israel has continued to push the borders of their country to gain additional land and all this is condoned because of some ancient claim to the land?
I´m sorry but it just makes no sense to me what so ever.
The Roman Catholic Church is a recognised country of its own.
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hey i have an idea........if we all put our collective energies that we put into this forum into creating peace in the gaza strip, we might even find a solution........any thoughts??
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It is necessary to do so for the future of humanity, because even if we are still divided into different tribes, we are but one and the same....
The Human Race.
And together we can topple the corruption, and solve the problems that face us all in or different sectors of the planet.
It is one planet, and it's all we've got.
IT IS TIME OF CHANGE.
And if we pull together, work together, build together....then....
YES WE CAN.That is my philosophy on this matter. I have been drained mentally and emotionally by this thread. If what I have written here is not understood, or is disagreeable to others, then tough luck.
This is my last say on the matter.
May whicever God you believe in provide you with the solutions to your problems, and may you be blessed by The Mighty Spirit with peace, and happinnes..
Well said and there is nothing further to be said on the matter...because really this is the heart and the truth of the matter...hatred needs to be irradicated...weapons need to be put down and the power of humanity needs to take over...who needs to do it???? USSSSSSSSSSSS...otherwise forget the future...there won't be one....Put our your countries and your children...and your relatives...in the very places of these people who face getting blown up everyday and I bet it wouldn't be long before someone could come up with a better solution...but as long as this goes on somewhere else and doesn't touch us...we are free to sit here and comment and say...let them blow each other up...BUT what are we and have we ever done about the situation??????
The Human Race.
And together we can topple the corruption, and solve the problems that face us all in or different sectors of the planet.
It is one planet, and it's all we've got.
IT IS TIME OF CHANGE.
And if we pull together, work together, build together....then....
YES WE CAN.That is my philosophy on this matter. I have been drained mentally and emotionally by this thread. If what I have written here is not understood, or is disagreeable to others, then tough luck.
This is my last say on the matter.
May whicever God you believe in provide you with the solutions to your problems, and may you be blessed by The Mighty Spirit with peace, and happinnes..
Well said and there is nothing further to be said on the matter...because really this is the heart and the truth of the matter...hatred needs to be irradicated...weapons need to be put down and the power of humanity needs to take over...who needs to do it???? USSSSSSSSSSSS...otherwise forget the future...there won't be one....Put our your countries and your children...and your relatives...in the very places of these people who face getting blown up everyday and I bet it wouldn't be long before someone could come up with a better solution...but as long as this goes on somewhere else and doesn't touch us...we are free to sit here and comment and say...let them blow each other up...BUT what are we and have we ever done about the situation??????
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jbibiza: This is where I have a problem... throughout history people have been conquered and lost lands so the history doesn´t really have a lot to do with anything. Jewish is a religion and they come from all parts of Europe... what other religion has ever been given a country of their own? The only reason that it happened in the first place was guilt in Europe over the horrendous acts against those of the Jewish faith during the war and no country wanting to open their doors to displaced Jews.
The people occupying that region had their homes and business´s taken from them... not through being defeated in war but through a decision made by world leaders that they had no say in. Since that initial decisions Israel has continued to push the borders of their country to gain additional land and all this is condoned because of some ancient claim to the land?
I´m sorry but it just makes no sense to me what so ever.
The people occupying that region had their homes and business´s taken from them... not through being defeated in war but through a decision made by world leaders that they had no say in. Since that initial decisions Israel has continued to push the borders of their country to gain additional land and all this is condoned because of some ancient claim to the land?
I´m sorry but it just makes no sense to me what so ever.
Sorry ibibiza, but I don t get your point here. Can u pls be more specific?
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JacobGrimm: The Roman Catholic Church is a recognised country of its own.
Oh come on... we both know that´s a completely different situation.
The problem goes back to the initial creation of Israel after the war. The land mass granted to them was not a large enough to sustain the population in agriculture, natural resources etc. causing them take additional land in order to sustain a viable country. I understand this, but don´t understand how the Palestinians have become the "bad guys" in all this for wanting to keep their land.
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outofspace: In your previous post you said "there has never been any Palestinian state". Obviously there was, instigated by the Romans, accepted by the Persians, incoming Muslims, and Ottoman Turks.
You also said "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration". Clearly not, if the land of Palestine was recognised as long ago as the 5th century bc.
You also said "the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians". Perhaps they "re-discovered" they were Palestinians, and part of an ancient land?
You also said "The Palestinians: no, they are not any ancient people, but claim to be. They were born in a single day, after a war that lasted six days in 1967 c.e." This contrasts remarkably with, "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago". Which is it 1967 or 1908? I would suggest that anyone born in a land called Palestine from the 5th century bc, was Palestinian.
Whatever the land is called, doesn't excuse the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people by the Israeli's. It's a bit like leaving a restaurant for a few years, then coming back and killing everyone at the table where you used to sit, because you wanted to sit there again.
You also said "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration". Clearly not, if the land of Palestine was recognised as long ago as the 5th century bc.
You also said "the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians". Perhaps they "re-discovered" they were Palestinians, and part of an ancient land?
You also said "The Palestinians: no, they are not any ancient people, but claim to be. They were born in a single day, after a war that lasted six days in 1967 c.e." This contrasts remarkably with, "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago". Which is it 1967 or 1908? I would suggest that anyone born in a land called Palestine from the 5th century bc, was Palestinian.
Whatever the land is called, doesn't excuse the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people by the Israeli's. It's a bit like leaving a restaurant for a few years, then coming back and killing everyone at the table where you used to sit, because you wanted to sit there again.
I guess the terms of comparison are absolutely improper
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outofspace: In your previous post you said "there has never been any Palestinian state". Obviously there was, instigated by the Romans, accepted by the Persians, incoming Muslims, and Ottoman Turks.
You also said "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration". Clearly not, if the land of Palestine was recognised as long ago as the 5th century bc.
You also said "the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians". Perhaps they "re-discovered" they were Palestinians, and part of an ancient land?
You also said "The Palestinians: no, they are not any ancient people, but claim to be. They were born in a single day, after a war that lasted six days in 1967 c.e." This contrasts remarkably with, "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago". Which is it 1967 or 1908? I would suggest that anyone born in a land called Palestine from the 5th century bc, was Palestinian.
Whatever the land is called, doesn't excuse the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people by the Israeli's. It's a bit like leaving a restaurant for a few years, then coming back and killing everyone at the table where you used to sit, because you wanted to sit there again.
You also said "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration". Clearly not, if the land of Palestine was recognised as long ago as the 5th century bc.
You also said "the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians". Perhaps they "re-discovered" they were Palestinians, and part of an ancient land?
You also said "The Palestinians: no, they are not any ancient people, but claim to be. They were born in a single day, after a war that lasted six days in 1967 c.e." This contrasts remarkably with, "they came into the land of Israel about one century ago". Which is it 1967 or 1908? I would suggest that anyone born in a land called Palestine from the 5th century bc, was Palestinian.
Whatever the land is called, doesn't excuse the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people by the Israeli's. It's a bit like leaving a restaurant for a few years, then coming back and killing everyone at the table where you used to sit, because you wanted to sit there again.
Did you know that the founding of a Palestinian state was a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel?
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SophieDarin: Did you know that the founding of a Palestinian state was a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel?
And I have nothing against founding new states, new lives, new homes. Only that I do not see Hamas the righteous and proper tool to defend a system of values which could call itself ' a country''.
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take it from someone who has lived thru the horrors of war, someone who spent their childhood hiding in underground shelters for months at a time with barely any food or water...war is ugly, and devastating. most people who have had family members and friends fall victims of a war are not likely to forget or forgive, and this only fuels retaliation and more war. I have a few things to say from reading some of the previous posts:
1- Palestine was a country on its own under the british mandate after WWI
2- Most countries in the Middle East are predominantly religion based.
3- No Genocide should be condoned, but using the Jewish genocide as an excuse to steal a country is not right... yes some may say the palestinians sold their own land, but if that is true, then those who sold the land were the few wealthy land owners who didn't care about the country or the poor people living on these lands (remember, back in the day is was a very feudal system)
4- Yes Hamas should not be hiding behind civilians, but then again, they are the civilians. Israel has a well trained army that fights for the people...palestinians barely have a functional government let alone an army, so the people themselves fight, which makes them more passionate yet harder to reach.
When one wants to discuss these issues, one has to keep in mind that these wars, even if started by a good cause (revolution or freedom...) they always end up being games played by the leaders. and the people are left to suffer.
Peace for 2009
1- Palestine was a country on its own under the british mandate after WWI
2- Most countries in the Middle East are predominantly religion based.
3- No Genocide should be condoned, but using the Jewish genocide as an excuse to steal a country is not right... yes some may say the palestinians sold their own land, but if that is true, then those who sold the land were the few wealthy land owners who didn't care about the country or the poor people living on these lands (remember, back in the day is was a very feudal system)
4- Yes Hamas should not be hiding behind civilians, but then again, they are the civilians. Israel has a well trained army that fights for the people...palestinians barely have a functional government let alone an army, so the people themselves fight, which makes them more passionate yet harder to reach.
When one wants to discuss these issues, one has to keep in mind that these wars, even if started by a good cause (revolution or freedom...) they always end up being games played by the leaders. and the people are left to suffer.
Peace for 2009
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nathalie81: take it from someone who has lived thru the horrors of war, someone who spent their childhood hiding in underground shelters for months at a time with barely any food or water...war is ugly, and devastating. most people who have had family members and friends fall victims of a war are not likely to forget or forgive, and this only fuels retaliation and more war. I have a few things to say from reading some of the previous posts:
1- Palestine was a country on its own under the british mandate after WWI
2- Most countries in the Middle East are predominantly religion based.
3- No Genocide should be condoned, but using the Jewish genocide as an excuse to steal a country is not right... yes some may say the palestinians sold their own land, but if that is true, then those who sold the land were the few wealthy land owners who didn't care about the country or the poor people living on these lands (remember, back in the day is was a very feudal system)
4- Yes Hamas should not be hiding behind civilians, but then again, they are the civilians. Israel has a well trained army that fights for the people...palestinians barely have a functional government let alone an army, so the people themselves fight, which makes them more passionate yet harder to reach.
When one wants to discuss these issues, one has to keep in mind that these wars, even if started by a good cause (revolution or freedom...) they always end up being games played by the leaders. and the people are left to suffer.
Peace for 2009
1- Palestine was a country on its own under the british mandate after WWI
2- Most countries in the Middle East are predominantly religion based.
3- No Genocide should be condoned, but using the Jewish genocide as an excuse to steal a country is not right... yes some may say the palestinians sold their own land, but if that is true, then those who sold the land were the few wealthy land owners who didn't care about the country or the poor people living on these lands (remember, back in the day is was a very feudal system)
4- Yes Hamas should not be hiding behind civilians, but then again, they are the civilians. Israel has a well trained army that fights for the people...palestinians barely have a functional government let alone an army, so the people themselves fight, which makes them more passionate yet harder to reach.
When one wants to discuss these issues, one has to keep in mind that these wars, even if started by a good cause (revolution or freedom...) they always end up being games played by the leaders. and the people are left to suffer.
Peace for 2009
I never said that Hamas represents Palestina. But Israel has also the right to live steadly within a country.
And if u consider that Israel is expansionist in any way whatsoever, just have a look in the middle east how much of the territories are arab how much are hebrew.
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jbibiza: Oh come on... we both know that´s a completely different situation.
The problem goes back to the initial creation of Israel after the war. The land mass granted to them was not a large enough to sustain the population in agriculture, natural resources etc. causing them take additional land in order to sustain a viable country. I understand this, but don´t understand how the Palestinians have become the "bad guys" in all this for wanting to keep their land.
The problem goes back to the initial creation of Israel after the war. The land mass granted to them was not a large enough to sustain the population in agriculture, natural resources etc. causing them take additional land in order to sustain a viable country. I understand this, but don´t understand how the Palestinians have become the "bad guys" in all this for wanting to keep their land.
The situation of the RC Church is more important than you might think. However off topic, they are very much a player in furthering the spacial repetitive dogma of religion and the persistence of gods.
Being a country of thier own, and accountable to no one is a pretty big deal. No other country has the secrets they do and remains unfettered with responsibility to anyone and that's pretty important. It would be of interest to know who does their "laundry".
I think you're right, taking land, and being supported by the very people who stepped in when saddam was taking land speaks rather loudly of biased agendas.
Religious people 'think' that rapture is at hand. All their talk and ramblings are about how the saviour will return in 2012. All this being seeded and fed by to the masses by ... guess who.
These little squabbles are merely, the distractions of the powers that be, keeping the fire stoked, keeping the rapture in view. And why not, christians are eating it up, muslims are eating it up and everyone thinks they are the promised "ones"
This a god problem, always has been and someone gets to be that god, greedy men behind the scenes playing with lives for their own ends. They could careless about the jews or the palestinians.------ This thread is Archived ------
SophieDarin: Did you know that the founding of a Palestinian state was a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel?
Who is battling against Israel Sophie? All I see is someone trying to hang on to what little they have left. Have you seen the amount of land Israel has taken from the Palestinians since they first declared the state of Israel?
The average man in the street doesn't want to fight, he has a family to look after. If he dies his family goes hungry. This war is no different to any other war, the men at the top want the power, and will destroy as many lives as necessary to achieve their goals.
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solitare: Copy of a memorandum issued by Bertrand Russell a few hours before his death.( By permission of the Estate of Bertrand Russell)
I wish I had found this... thanks for posting it, it states my feelings much more comprehensively then I have been able to do.
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Indyfella: 90 attacks by Hamas over the past few years...and Israel has done virtually nothing. It's time to pay the piper.
Wow!
what a record of events!!
You must have been there watching the Mosad boys playing cards or is it that your scale to count is as small as the pitty in your mean heart??
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Why would anyone want to stop two countries who've been fighting for over a hundred years ? They like it ......
Actually that's kind of an arrogant statement, but you'de think after that long all parties involved would have attempted to work something out
It's much more than religion and possession of dirt. It's an upbringing and lifestyle that prevails. And, the only mission the US should engage in is some humaitarian efforts for the civilian Paletinians .............
Actually that's kind of an arrogant statement, but you'de think after that long all parties involved would have attempted to work something out
It's much more than religion and possession of dirt. It's an upbringing and lifestyle that prevails. And, the only mission the US should engage in is some humaitarian efforts for the civilian Paletinians .............
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Antjo39: Wow!
what a record of events!!
You must have been there watching the Mosad boys playing cards or is it that your scale to count is as small as the pitty in your mean heart??
what a record of events!!
You must have been there watching the Mosad boys playing cards or is it that your scale to count is as small as the pitty in your mean heart??
Hey, you're smart.
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jbibiza: If that´s the case... why does Israel have more then 30% greater land mass then they were originally given after the war? Is it wrong for a country to protect it´s borders and refuse to continue to lose land to a neighboring country?
I'd want to research that...was that from the 67 war?
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America refused to let Jewish People settle here after the WW2. They turned the ships full of jews coming to AMerica towards Palestine. Forced Palestine to give up there land. AMerica has a lot of Land, should of let the jews in and everything would have been aright. ahahhah, what a jew. hahaha.
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alikhan90301: America refused to let Jewish People settle here after the WW2. They turned the ships full of jews coming to AMerica towards Palestine. Forced Palestine to give up there land. AMerica has a lot of Land, should of let the jews in and everything would have been aright. ahahhah, what a jew. hahaha.
Read my post above and it will complemetn your idea. It is just the plan to take palestine as their proper Zionist state. All those idiots that talk about their horror for terrorism do not know or want to forget about that. For the Zionist leaders, in their calculations, the Arabs living there were just nothing but something that had to be exterminated at the right time.
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