Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share ! (814)
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gozoman2: defy....
broad sight.....
the system.....
they......
their gunmen.....
Ah but then you seem to have been enlightened and sit with the Gods.........you seem to know the all the intrinsic evils of western civilisation......
maybe it would be best for you to get yourself a box and start doing session on Sundays in Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park in London.
You may even end up having an audience.
broad sight.....
the system.....
they......
their gunmen.....
Ah but then you seem to have been enlightened and sit with the Gods.........you seem to know the all the intrinsic evils of western civilisation......
maybe it would be best for you to get yourself a box and start doing session on Sundays in Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park in London.
You may even end up having an audience.
Don´t start with cheap stuff, man.
It does not go well with the veil of saintness you have put on to the audience you want to have here.
Me looking for an audience? uhmmm.... come and learn about the Andean world before you shoot your cheap bullets. My advantage is that I know both sides, yours and mine. You could if you want too.
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Antjo39: Ok, you have to reviewed the concept of anarchy. There are many options and the option you are talking belongs to those that want to perpetuate their power.
Anarchy as self-regulation and beyond the Western legends of freedom and democracy is certainly soemthing that can only come when human beings take a step back to the thing they got detached from : that is nature.
Westren Civilization has not been the only option for human beings. That is another legend from the west. Review your books and you will find , even in the language of great Western historians like Toymbee what other civilizations meant before they were destroyed by the fire, insanity and greed of the West.
It is true that nothing like those civilizations can be retrieved, so if our only option is this civilization as you fervently wish, then we are just doomed. I actually tend to think that way most of the time. We are just doomed.
Anarchy as self-regulation and beyond the Western legends of freedom and democracy is certainly soemthing that can only come when human beings take a step back to the thing they got detached from : that is nature.
Westren Civilization has not been the only option for human beings. That is another legend from the west. Review your books and you will find , even in the language of great Western historians like Toymbee what other civilizations meant before they were destroyed by the fire, insanity and greed of the West.
It is true that nothing like those civilizations can be retrieved, so if our only option is this civilization as you fervently wish, then we are just doomed. I actually tend to think that way most of the time. We are just doomed.
What I cannot understand is.......what chip do you carry regarding the west?
And why do you keep arriving at conclusions that have never been said?
Who professed the western civilization as the one and only option to humanity?
I never did......in effect I consider social order as seen in the west as seriously flawed.....but to date, in this century and now, it is the only one that seems to work closest in providing individual freedom of expression, of thought, of personal development.
I do not abide by the US ways, I go by the EU standards, which are different. Imperfect as they may be.
And even in wishing and craving the diffusion of peace, I will defend my way of civilization if it comes under attack, verbally or otherwise.
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Hugz_n_Kissez: I don't see where anyone was saying love was gonna do it...but humanity just might...and so might negotiation...that's the point nobody is willing to accept or give on either side...until they are...and all sides learn that it may not be exactly what each wants but it will still meet their purpose...hence a win win for alllllllll...this will continue...and there is no other solution...but the hatred etc of each other is only going to keep he conflict going...and if you want healthy leaders...well I guess that can only stem from having healthy people first...that is the truth of the big picture....Needs have to be met on all sides first...the the wants looked at and agreed upon...but none of that will ever happen while people are being killed daily....
And no matter how the world...or each side views Hamas...they must be involved in the negotiation and in agreement....otherwise they will always be the perpetual fly in the ointment and spoiler of peace...which I think is what's happening now....It's just common sense....
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Hugz_n_Kissez: I don't see where anyone was saying love was gonna do it...but humanity just might...and so might negotiation...that's the point nobody is willing to accept or give on either side...until they are...and all sides learn that it may not be exactly what each wants but it will still meet their purpose...hence a win win for alllllllll...this will continue...and there is no other solution...but the hatred etc of each other is only going to keep he conflict going...and if you want healthy leaders...well I guess that can only stem from having healthy people first...that is the truth of the big picture....Needs have to be met on all sides first...the the wants looked at and agreed upon...but none of that will ever happen while people are being killed daily....
And no matter how the world...or each side views Hamas...they must be involved in the negotiation and in agreement....otherwise they will always be the perpetual fly in the ointment and spoiler of peace...which I think is what's happening now....It's just common sense....
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Antjo39: Don´t start with cheap stuff, man.
It does not go well with the veil of saintness you have put on to the audience you want to have here.
Me looking for an audience? uhmmm.... come and learn about the Andean world before you shoot your cheap bullets. My advantage is that I know both sides, yours and mine. You could if you want too.
It does not go well with the veil of saintness you have put on to the audience you want to have here.
Me looking for an audience? uhmmm.... come and learn about the Andean world before you shoot your cheap bullets. My advantage is that I know both sides, yours and mine. You could if you want too.
That is the beauty of the civilization I defend.....you have the choice.....
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Hugz_n_Kissez: I don't see where anyone was saying love was gonna do it...but humanity just might...and so might negotiation...that's the point nobody is willing to accept or give on either side...until they are...and all sides learn that it may not be exactly what each wants but it will still meet their purpose...hence a win win for alllllllll...this will continue...and there is no other solution...but the hatred etc of each other is only going to keep he conflict going...and if you want healthy leaders...well I guess that can only stem from having healthy people first...that is the truth of the big picture....Needs have to be met on all sides first...the the wants looked at and agreed upon...but none of that will ever happen while people are being killed daily....
It´s never going to be a win/win situation. Someone is going to lose, and when that loss is negotiated... will the extremists in either country accept that loss? Will world economies that depend on oil be willing to accept peace and strong governments that may cut them out of the loop? I don´t see it happening.
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Well, what do you expect is going to happen, when the military of palastine, sets up their bunkers in between the civilians houses.For eight months Palistine, and Isreal are suppose to be in a sieze fire. But in that time palistine is firing at least one bom a day into Isreal. What happend was the Inevitable.Maybe in the next two thousand years when they reach another sieze fire, they will think twice about there actions against one another. make love not war....
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gozoman2: What I cannot understand is.......what chip do you carry regarding the west?
And why do you keep arriving at conclusions that have never been said?
Who professed the western civilization as the one and only option to humanity?
I never did......in effect I consider social order as seen in the west as seriously flawed.....but to date, in this century and now, it is the only one that seems to work closest in providing individual freedom of expression, of thought, of personal development.
I do not abide by the US ways, I go by the EU standards, which are different. Imperfect as they may be.
And even in wishing and craving the diffusion of peace, I will defend my way of civilization if it comes under attack, verbally or otherwise.
And why do you keep arriving at conclusions that have never been said?
Who professed the western civilization as the one and only option to humanity?
I never did......in effect I consider social order as seen in the west as seriously flawed.....but to date, in this century and now, it is the only one that seems to work closest in providing individual freedom of expression, of thought, of personal development.
I do not abide by the US ways, I go by the EU standards, which are different. Imperfect as they may be.
And even in wishing and craving the diffusion of peace, I will defend my way of civilization if it comes under attack, verbally or otherwise.
It is alright. You have your right of course.
And if your difussion of peace is sincere and has an effect you will be first to know. Time will tell.
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jbibiza: It´s never going to be a win/win situation. Someone is going to lose, and when that loss is negotiated... will the extremists in either country accept that loss? Will world economies that depend on oil be willing to accept peace and strong governments that may cut them out of the loop? I don´t see it happening.
Well that's the only way I see and end to this all...win win...doesn't always mean getting what one wants...it means getting enough of what wants and needs to be satisfied on both sides..that's the whole purpose of negotiation...not for one side to win and for one side to lose...and if they want real peace...each will have to police the extremists on either side...and like I said...Hamas needs to be involved in the process...and in agreement otherwise...they will always be the spoilers of peace..about the world leaders...that depends how badly they want to the conflict to end..or to perpetuate it...in the name of oil...so I guess it's up to the rest of us to elect leaders that won't perpetuate war and violence in the name of war....Can and will it be done...Who knows...but I see it as the only means to the end....If you have a better solution...I would be open to hearing it....
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gozoman2: That is the beauty of the civilization I defend.....you have the choice.....
It would be good to asses from a sefless point of view if that "beauty" has to be paid with the other side of the coin: the atrocities of yesterday and today. It connects the two thing: selfishness and the search for peace.
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Hugz_n_Kissez: Well that's the only way I see and end to this all...win win...doesn't always mean getting what one wants...it means getting enough of what wants and needs to be satisfied on both sides..that's the whole purpose of negotiation...not for one side to win and for one side to lose...and if they want real peace...each will have to police the extremists on either side...and like I said...Hamas needs to be involved in the process...and in agreement otherwise...they will always be the spoilers of peace..about the world leaders...that depends how badly they want to the conflict to end..or to perpetuate it...in the name of oil...so I guess it's up to the rest of us to elect leaders that won't perpetuate war and violence in the name of war....Can and will it be done...Who knows...but I see it as the only means to the end....If you have a better solution...I would be open to hearing it....
*in the name of oil...
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Hugz_n_Kissez: Well that's the only way I see and end to this all...win win...doesn't always mean getting what one wants...it means getting enough of what wants and needs to be satisfied on both sides..that's the whole purpose of negotiation...not for one side to win and for one side to lose...and if they want real peace...each will have to police the extremists on either side...and like I said...Hamas needs to be involved in the process...and in agreement otherwise...they will always be the spoilers of peace..about the world leaders...that depends how badly they want to the conflict to end..or to perpetuate it...in the name of oil...so I guess it's up to the rest of us to elect leaders that won't perpetuate war and violence in the name of war....Can and will it be done...Who knows...but I see it as the only means to the end....If you have a better solution...I would be open to hearing it....
ten on ten
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gozoman2: ten on ten
Thank you...all the blaming and history on all sides of the issue will never solve the problem...it only perpetuates it...it would be good to hear more ideas about solutions than blame....
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Antjo39: It would be good to asses from a sefless point of view if that "beauty" has to be paid with the other side of the coin: the atrocities of yesterday and today. It connects the two thing: selfishness and the search for peace.
It is a matter of relative perspective.
I cannot, and do not condone any of the two parties in conflict in Gaza. I lean towards safegauding the rights of the Palestinians for their own homeland.
But is also relevant that having chosen to back leaders whose creed dictates the eradication of Israel as their goal, they have moved one step further to their being annihilated as a people.
Not because I condone it, but because that is the way it is. Israel will never allow itself to be wiped out. It is too powerful.
yesterday I mentioned the Romans...and just now I had a flash in my mind...the opening sequence of the film Gladiator......The Goths were defending their land......and they refused to accept the might they faced...and were wiped out.
It is not a matte of justifiable or not, it just IS.
Lobbing rockets at Israel and human suicide bombers will not give the Palestinians their rights.
Negotiation might. It is the only solution for the road to peace.
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Well Israel´s latest attack now has Egypt and Jordan reconsidering their treaties with Israel. It would appear that this latest act has pushed the possibilities of peace further out of reach then ever.
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SophieDarin: Oo yeahh...you wish!!! Hamas is like an octopus, which cannot be completely destroyed! If only nothing were left of Hamas and no one remembered them in 2 year's time!!
hahahaha
and will never be destroyed honey !! rest assured ;)
and wow !! you want us ot forget our victims within two years only , how cheap !!
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In response to: its the sixth day , 4oo are killed and over 2000 are injuired, no food , no water , no Petrol , no medication, no electricity, and Israel refuses to stop the raids that are killing innocent people in Gaza , among the international silence . wat do you think ?
Both sides have taken lives...both sides have perpetuated the conflict so both sides are responsible...and only both sides can do what it takes to garner peace....
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gozoman2: It is a matter of relative perspective.
I cannot, and do not condone any of the two parties in conflict in Gaza. I lean towards safegauding the rights of the Palestinians for their own homeland.
But is also relevant that having chosen to back leaders whose creed dictates the eradication of Israel as their goal, they have moved one step further to their being annihilated as a people.
Not because I condone it, but because that is the way it is. Israel will never allow itself to be wiped out. It is too powerful.
yesterday I mentioned the Romans...and just now I had a flash in my mind...the opening sequence of the film Gladiator......The Goths were defending their land......and they refused to accept the might they faced...and were wiped out.
It is not a matte of justifiable or not, it just IS.
Lobbing rockets at Israel and human suicide bombers will not give the Palestinians their rights.
Negotiation might. It is the only solution for the road to peace.
I cannot, and do not condone any of the two parties in conflict in Gaza. I lean towards safegauding the rights of the Palestinians for their own homeland.
But is also relevant that having chosen to back leaders whose creed dictates the eradication of Israel as their goal, they have moved one step further to their being annihilated as a people.
Not because I condone it, but because that is the way it is. Israel will never allow itself to be wiped out. It is too powerful.
yesterday I mentioned the Romans...and just now I had a flash in my mind...the opening sequence of the film Gladiator......The Goths were defending their land......and they refused to accept the might they faced...and were wiped out.
It is not a matte of justifiable or not, it just IS.
Lobbing rockets at Israel and human suicide bombers will not give the Palestinians their rights.
Negotiation might. It is the only solution for the road to peace.
In America at the arrival of the Europeans (and I do not mean the US as other people use the term here and everywhere) those in the north in a great number decided to fight. In the South, particularly in my country this was mixed and many of us gave in to the new power. We were al doomed, in the north and in the south. They fought until extermination and the others subjected and also were exterminated. Sometimes in my solitude I have seen the deep reasons why it is better to fight and die. It is easy to see why some races choose the struggle instead of continuing living as mutants, survivors of a thorough destruction. Anyway just a reflection on top of yours. I do not mean to say anything articulated in fact.
The problem of the good and bad things this world offers us should be balanced because as it gives us all sort of pleasures and options it also gives us those moments when we see the slaughter of wildlife, the slaughter of peoples, the destruction of our own inner dignity, our reduction to miserable machines. Then this double ability to get pleased or horrified must produce a serious time of assesment of the two things offered. THat is : selfishness versus selflessness.
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The problem is not going to go away with love, at least not in the foreseeable future and throwing around philosophy isn´t going to change anything going on over there.
You have a country, who was gifted land by the world powers at the time, this gift took homes and business´s from others. The land mass was not large enough to sustain an independent country, so they started extending their borders in order to accommodate their population, taking even more from people who had lost so much already. The only way this will ever be settled is going to mean that someone loses.
Israel is not willing to go back to their original boundaries and Palestine is not going to accept the insult and homelessness that the loss of the original and additional lands has meant.
Does anyone think they have a solution to this? Yes Egypt got back their land, but at the cost of a potential area wide peace treaty... I believe the Camp David talks were of more damage then good.
Why are you saying that Israel is not willing to go back to their original boundaries???
Israelis withdrew from Gaza in 2005 for te sake of peace, for them and Plaestina, but Hamas has continued for the last 3 years to launch rockets. Whyyy?? no Israeli foot was living is Gaza anymore, not any more since 2005 and all this time Israel did not launch any single rocket towards Gaza, only warnings. But the world wouldn't listen.
Now Hamas jeopardized his own people.