littlewolf: I dont care if everyone sees this or not,It is about religion.Not all muslims act on the violent acts the Koran speaks of.But there are several sects, like Hamas,Hezbolla,Sunni,ect, who do act on them.The man interviewed said that he finally saw that the terrioists took whatever passage out of the Koran that suited their cause at the time and ignored the rest.So religion is exactly what is firing the terrioists.
So is the solution for them all to become Christian then????
gozoman2: Exactly....I have gone hoarse trying to make that understood here...
The best way is to start talking about feasible things...but who can? what power do we have? but still I would like to hear the ideas. That is your turn.
BarrenPneuma: If Hamas did not have such a volatile presence in Gaza then likely the repercussions from their attacks would fall elsewhere. It is sad for the true innocents but no less sad than it is for the local Israelis who must face this every day for the past 60 years. When you continuously poke a bear is it any wonder really when it turns and bites your hand off?
Very well said!! Could'nt answer better myself. The Hamas are bringing misery on their people, and before they are eliminated, there will be no peace.
Israel has to live a state of war. They are the ones who are suffering. Who pokes the bear does not expect the bear to aplogise, and move away!!
I cannot, and do not condone any of the two parties in conflict in Gaza. I lean towards safegauding the rights of the Palestinians for their own homeland.
But is also relevant that having chosen to back leaders whose creed dictates the eradication of Israel as their goal, they have moved one step further to their being annihilated as a people.
Not because I condone it, but because that is the way it is. Israel will never allow itself to be wiped out. It is too powerful.
yesterday I mentioned the Romans...and just now I had a flash in my mind...the opening sequence of the film Gladiator......The Goths were defending their land......and they refused to accept the might they faced...and were wiped out.
It is not a matte of justifiable or not, it just IS.
Lobbing rockets at Israel and human suicide bombers will not give the Palestinians their rights.
Negotiation might. It is the only solution for the road to peace.
I agree Gozoman! This is the most sensible thing I have read here!! I would like to see a Palestinian homeland too but not at the cost of ethnic cleansing of every Jew in the area permanently. It seems to be the main agenda of the Palestinians and other factions over in the Mideast though. Yes, negotiations are in line but will probably occur when Hamas is just about defeated and out of weaponry.And then we will see who breaks the peace treaty again!!
Jan 4, 2009 4:45 PM CST Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share !
outofspacereykjavik, Capital Region Iceland22 Posts
outofspacereykjavik, Capital Region Iceland22 posts
Antjo39: The best way is to start talking about feasible things...but who can? what power do we have? but still I would like to hear the ideas. That is your turn.
We have all the power my friend, without our co-operation the governments of the world, and those behind them can do nothing.
jbibiza: Gaza has been under an Israeli siege since Hamas won parliamentary elections in 2006. After Hamas took power by force in June 2007 in what many have termed a pre-empting of an impending offensive by Fatah geared at ridding the enclave of their rivals, Israel tightened its hold.
Under the terms of an Egyptian-mediated cease-fire that went into effect in June, Israel was to lift its siege if Hamas managed to reign in rocket fire from Gaza. While the Islamists virtually halted rocket attacks, the Zionist state did not honor its commitment.
Nonetheless, the truce mostly held until November 4, when Israeli tanks and troops invaded the territory and killed seven Hamas members. The invasion, along with Israeli assassinations in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza, prompted fighters to resume rocket attacks into southern Israel.
Hamas fired more than 30 rockets into Israel on Friday, but no casualties were reported.
1) Gaza hasn't been under an Israeli siege, Israel kept aerian control/ surveillance, knowing very well who they are dealing with.
2)As Palestina should not be seen through he eyes of fundamentalist Hamas, so Israel cannot be seen as a ''Zionist'' country. The Zionists are to be thought of apart of he Israeli ordinary people and their beliefs.
3) Why did the Israeli troops kill the seven members ( and not more than that?)
outofspace: We have all the power my friend, without our co-operation the governments of the world, and those behind them can do nothing.
If the power exists as you say, it will show. I hope. I will be ready to join then. Personally I am not so optimistic then I have given the turn to those that talk about all those brilliant things to give us a first example.
Jan1305: Not really, it can alter the whole context in most cases.
Free online translations should be banned!
Tienes que admitir que no estuvo tan mal aunque el final fue jodidamente terrible. Me cagué de risa por un rato. Buen español el tuyo nena. Salud por eso y que se joda todo lo demás!!!
Antjo39: If the power exists as you say, it will show. I hope. I will be ready to join then. Personally I am not so optimistic then I have given the turn to those that talk about all those brilliant things to give us a first example.
The continual use of force is a total lack of sound political judgment as is deliberately provoking it so as to continue using it at every opportunity it sees fit to use. As is the current standard practice of overkill. Unless it is an advancement of hidden agendas such as the destruction of the Palestinian peoples which would forever render the entire of Palestine academic. But lets pretend it is not. Peace can only be gained and made secure and enduring by the adoption of a just, reasonable approach by both sides. Israel, it would seem missed the greatest opportunity after its victory in 1967. Israel's neighbors were shattered and would probably have accepted a generous final settlement. But Israel was too exhilarated by its triumph and expected unconditional surrender. This, Egypt and Jordon were not prepared to offer and , as time passed and they recovered from their shock, they became less ready to surrender and submit. Moreover, the presence of the Soviets with military units there in Egypt, it changed the situation. Egypt did not want to lose its independence to the Soviet Union, but a Soviet garrison was at least preferable to an Israeli occupation. Two new developments ensued. Firstly, the Israelis resumed their hard line, chiefly in the form of bombing by conventional bombs and now by using Napalm bombs on Egypt and Jordanian positions, and refugee camps. As time went on, this form of barbarism became indiscriminate, for neither Egypt nor Jordan possessed any operational air forces. As it proved, intensified Israeli bombing of the Egyptian delta played the Soviet game, for it provided the excuse for the strengthening of the Soviet build-up in Egypt, including the dispatch of ground-to-air missiles and of Soviet pilots. The usual vicious circle continued. The US as expected, supplied more bombers to Israel, who increase the air attacks all over Egypt. The Soviets were thus given a pretext to increase their strength in Egypt, with a view to its ultimate use, not against Israel, but against the Western allies. Or so we are led to believe, but it is highly doubtful that the Zionists within the Soviet system had lost that much control that it would really jeopardize the primary source of moneys to finance the state of Israel... The result of the Arab debacle of 1967 was a marked increase of activity on the part of the Palestine guerrillas. Regular armies having failed, the refugees decided to act for themselves. Reports of their exploits roused great enthusiasm all over the Arabic speaking, and even the whole Muslim world, and funds and weapons poured in to support them. Unfortunately, some of the guerrillas became arrogant and behaved in an increasingly detrimental manner to some sympathetic governments, particularly Lebanon and Jordan. In June 1970, the US put forward proposals for a cease-fire to allow negotiations. These proposals were accepted by Egypt and Jordan, and later on, though reluctantly, by Israel. However, shortly afterwards, Israel withdrew from all negotiations, on the grounds that Egypt had taken advantage of the cease-fire to move certain Soviet missile sites. This was never proven to be true, but Israel also profited by the truce to improve its deference. In any case, fixed anti-aircraft missile sites are wholly defensive, not offensive, installations as the Zionist world press screamed everyday, all day. As has already been emphasized, the origin of the fighting in the Middle East was and always will be the forced eviction of the native population of Palestine from their homes. The US proposals treated the problem as simply as a war between Egypt and Israel and Jordan which could be ended by negotiations between the three governments. The Palestinian refugees, the real heart of the problem was never mentioned by those arrogant proposals. In essence, it was merely a ploy to keep and allow Israel to keep making war on its Arab neighbors.
The guerrillas cannot defeat the Israeli army but they can prevent the establishment of peace until their very real grievances have been redressed; until the entire free world says enough and forces Israel to give up a policy of continual war against the Palestinian peoples and settle without pre conditions as they were never given any legal or moral right to any land anywhere in the Middle East. They are there and they must be forced to finally settle for what the world does demand for Palestinians; Justice. Ultimately the guerrillas of all the PLO factions were driven out of Jordan but clung to a number of places in the north west. Fighting between Palestinians and Jordanians left a legacy of hatred between Jordan and the Palestinians; they make up over half their population. To the historian, it is almost impossible to escape the resemblance between this vicious gang warfare in the very presence of a powerful outside enemy, and the similar feuds between John of Gischala, Simon bar Giorra and Eleazar the Zealot, while the Romans were besieging Jerusalem. These peculiar psychological attitudes are so unlike the given mentality of the Arabs in other areas, that some explanation seems necessary. Can...could it be that the so-called Arabs of Palestine today are to a considerable degree the descendants of the defenders of Jerusalem against Titus, converted first to Christianity and then, after A.D.650, to Islam..?
This last note on things most aren't aware of, one of the most censored stories in the so called free press in the so called 'free' West, meaning Europe and the ever so called 'free' US, (the Wild West) is the continuing developments of reports filed with the US Pentagram, oops, the Pentagon and to NATO's Secretary General in 2008, NATO officials are being urged by the US to consider a "first strike nuclear option to be used anywhere in the world that a threat may arise." Interesting wording to say the least; especially all the questions it raises with no forthcoming answers...what, that's not 'news'? (See projectcensored.org for the complete list of media censored news)
It is near 1am here in Tripoli all is fairly quiet and all Defense forces have been quietly put on alert since yesterday especially air and coastal defenses...a lot of interesting guests are visiting...excitement in the air
See, not a single obscenity or temper tantrum unlike so many other posts from what appears to be some very unbalanced miscreants ...
Jan 4, 2009 5:05 PM CST Gaza !! Israel kills civilians ,, among international silence .. What do you think ? share !
outofspacereykjavik, Capital Region Iceland22 Posts
outofspacereykjavik, Capital Region Iceland22 posts
Antjo39: If the power exists as you say, it will show. I hope. I will be ready to join then. Personally I am not so optimistic then I have given the turn to those that talk about all those brilliant things to give us a first example.
If we, the people, put down our weapons and said NO, there could be no more fighting. We have so much power, and we give it all away. Without us, those in power have no power.
My hope is that one day, very soon, the world will wake up and realise this.
solitare: The continual use of force is a total lack of sound political judgment as is deliberately provoking it so as to continue using it at every opportunity it sees fit to use. As is the current standard practice of overkill. Unless it is an advancement of hidden agendas such as the destruction of the Palestinian peoples which would forever render the entire of Palestine academic. But lets pretend it is not. Peace can only be gained and made secure and enduring by the adoption of a just, reasonable approach by both sides. Israel, it would seem missed the greatest opportunity after its victory in 1967. Israel's neighbors were shattered and would probably have accepted a generous final settlement. But Israel was too exhilarated by its triumph and expected unconditional surrender. This, Egypt and Jordon were not prepared to offer and , as time passed and they recovered from their shock, they became less ready to surrender and submit. Moreover, the presence of the Soviets with military units there in Egypt, it changed the situation. Egypt did not want to lose its independence to the Soviet Union, but a Soviet garrison was at least preferable to an Israeli occupation. Two new developments ensued. Firstly, the Israelis resumed their hard line, chiefly in the form of bombing by conventional bombs and now by using Napalm bombs on Egypt and Jordanian positions, and refugee camps. As time went on, this form of barbarism became indiscriminate, for neither Egypt nor Jordan possessed any operational air forces. As it proved, intensified Israeli bombing of the Egyptian delta played the Soviet game, for it provided the excuse for the strengthening of the Soviet build-up in Egypt, including the dispatch of ground-to-air missiles and of Soviet pilots. The usual vicious circle continued. The US as expected, supplied more bombers to Israel, who increase the air attacks all over Egypt. The Soviets were thus given a pretext to increase their strength in Egypt, with a view to its ultimate use, not against Israel, but against the Western allies. Or so we are led to believe, but it is highly doubtful that the Zionists within the Soviet system had lost that much control that it would really jeopardize the primary source of moneys to finance the state of Israel... The result of the Arab debacle of 1967 was a marked increase of activity on the part of the Palestine guerrillas. Regular armies having failed, the refugees decided to act for themselves. Reports of their exploits roused great enthusiasm all over the Arabic speaking, and even the whole Muslim world, and funds and weapons poured in to support them. Unfortunately, some of the guerrillas became arrogant and behaved in an increasingly detrimental manner to some sympathetic governments, particularly Lebanon and Jordan. In June 1970, the US put forward proposals for a cease-fire to allow negotiations. These proposals were accepted by Egypt and Jordan, and later on, though reluctantly, by Israel. However, shortly afterwards, Israel withdrew from all negotiations, on the grounds that Egypt had taken advantage of the cease-fire to move certain Soviet missile sites. This was never proven to be true, but Israel also profited by the truce to improve its deference. In any case, fixed anti-aircraft missile sites are wholly defensive, not offensive, installations as the Zionist world press screamed everyday, all day. .....In essence, it was merely a ploy to keep and allow Israel to keep making war on its Arab neighbors.
Solitare.... you are really fast)))) with an impecable spelling for the speed))
solitare: The continual use of force is a total lack of sound political judgment as is deliberately provoking it so as to continue using it at every opportunity it sees fit to use. As is the current standard practice of overkill. Unless it is an advancement of hidden agendas such as the destruction of the Palestinian peoples which would forever render the entire of Palestine academic. But lets pretend it is not. Peace can only be gained and made secure and enduring by the adoption of a just, reasonable approach by both sides. Israel, it would seem missed the greatest opportunity after its victory in 1967. Israel's neighbors were shattered and would probably have accepted a generous final settlement. But Israel was too exhilarated by its triumph and expected unconditional surrender. This, Egypt and Jordon were not prepared to offer and , as time passed and they recovered from their shock, they became less ready to surrender and submit. Moreover, the presence of the Soviets with military units there in Egypt, it changed the situation. Egypt did not want to lose its independence to the Soviet Union, but a Soviet garrison was at least preferable to an Israeli occupation. Two new developments ensued. Firstly, the Israelis resumed their hard line, chiefly in the form of bombing by conventional bombs and now by using Napalm bombs on Egypt and Jordanian positions, and refugee camps. As time went on, this form of barbarism became indiscriminate, for neither Egypt nor Jordan possessed any operational air forces. As it proved, intensified Israeli bombing of the Egyptian delta played the Soviet game, for it provided the excuse for the strengthening of the Soviet build-up in Egypt, including the dispatch of ground-to-air missiles and of Soviet pilots. The usual vicious circle continued. The US as expected, supplied more bombers to Israel, who increase the air attacks all over Egypt. The Soviets were thus given a pretext to increase their strength in Egypt, with a view to its ultimate use, not against Israel, but against the Western allies. Or so we are led to believe, but it is highly doubtful that the Zionists within the Soviet system had lost that much control that it would really jeopardize the primary source of moneys to finance the state of Israel... The result of the Arab debacle of 1967 was a marked increase of activity on the part of the Palestine guerrillas. Regular armies having failed, the refugees decided to act for themselves. Reports of their exploits roused great enthusiasm all over the Arabic speaking, and even the whole Muslim world, and funds and weapons poured in to support them. Unfortunately, some of the guerrillas became arrogant and behaved in an increasingly detrimental manner to some sympathetic governments, particularly Lebanon and Jordan. In June 1970, the US put forward proposals for a cease-fire to allow negotiations. These proposals were accepted by Egypt and Jordan, and later on, though reluctantly, by Israel. However, shortly afterwards, Israel withdrew from all negotiations, on the grounds that Egypt had taken advantage of the cease-fire to move certain Soviet missile sites. This was never proven to be true, but Israel also profited by the truce to improve its deference. In any case, fixed anti-aircraft missile sites are wholly defensive, not offensive, installations as the Zionist world press screamed everyday, all day. As has already been emphasized, the origin of the fighting in the Middle East was and always will be the forced eviction of the native population .......tinian refugees, the real heart of the problem was never mentioned by those arrogant proposals. In essence, it was merely a ploy to keep and allow Israel to keep making war on its Arab neighbors.
I always appreciate your posts because of the information contained and the analysis.
gozoman2: It is in the interest of Hamas to get the cameras of the world focused on civilian casualties caused by an expected Israeli retaliation attack to their rocket launches.
The rockets themselves are so useless and inaccurate, that I am sure everyone realises that the damage done equals to nothing.
They weren't being shot to cause damage. They were used to make Israel attack Gaza such that they could show the entire world how they are being murdered by Israel.
Gozo, of course they shoot to hopefully inflict damage! The international TV reporters are not at a particular site to film it so the world cannot see what is occuring in Israel. However, the are usually there when a suicide bomber blows up in a Jewish enclave.There's lots of celebration and jumping for joy if they luckily get to blow apart a Jewish child, mother, elderly person with their inaccurate rockets especially if it is shown on TV. This is sad but it is true.CNN does make it into some of the hot spots.
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So is the solution for them all to become Christian then????