What an intriguing thought and question Tulefel and let me offer you my thoughts and hopes that your own visits to the hospital are helping you. I cannot forget our glass no bottle of wine in Gothenburg.
What is a life? One that is filled with good health, one that is filled with love, one that is filled with the sun, a child's chubby arms reaching up for you, a pair of arms around you? That is what most people (along similar lines will state)
Because that is what we perceive to be a life, filled with laughter and joy and love. When our life is ours isn't it? One not to be judged as to how we live it, how we behave and how we lead that very life.
The sentence the nurse came out with was a kneejerk reaction to a death. We all have to say something when a person dies, even if we do not know them..
My old Uncle, had polio as a child, he could walk aided, badly. But he did and he had a mouth organ that was his company, his tunes and his carer would take care of him and she stayed with him for 24 years with my dad and I as a child going in when she was not there. When he died, many locals stated he never really had a life.
He did, see. He loved his life, his Radio 4, his classical music, his silly old jokes, the crow that came for his breadcrusts every morning, the children that he would buy sweets for on their way home from school, his harmonica, his old grandfather clock that he worked on. He was alone, never married, never any children, but he had a life, a beautiful one. Isn't our life how we live it, only to have a person when we die, say 'it wasn't a life'
She may have had a life, ill health may have taken her, but she may have one.
I am not afraid to die, that does not mean I am reckless in that I don't care about my life, or that of others around me. It means that I have a life and when it is at it's end, then it will be gone, if a person wants to say about me, 'it wasn't a life' then so be it.
To me what is not a life? Not a life is one where a person does not appreciate what is around them and is swamped in bitterness and regret.
It had nothing to do with you single. You personally Col.
My views have nothing to do with you opposing me on my views at all, nor have I stated that your views are any less because you are single. Again, find me where I said that. It seems because I agreed with Ambrose on his quote, that you have taken it personally as in directed at you. Ambrose is very ariculate in his words and knows where he is writing and who to and he did not say you as in you Col. You have chosen to see it that way and as a result you are the one claiming I am selfish, and childish and that I put my children as second when it comes to my partner.
This I can understand, but because I have agreed with Ambrose on something that you have misread, you have resorted to somewhat punitive attacks.
It's a debate, Col, not a personal attack on you, without the name calling your questions are valid ones.
I would be very surprised Dru, if you would not have read the posts. I would not be surprised at your response, even if diametrically opposed from mine, which is often the case with me. Not with you, just with me.
I was a child of a man who had to choose, for safety sake. My ex husband chose his love and then came back for his children, he never stopped loving them.
And I would be a mean punitive person had I denied our children of the love of their father.
Sometimes, people see what they want to see and Col while he may still feel the same, however, I do think he has misread my posts, claiming I put my children in second place, which is completely untrue and nowhere have I stated that at all. Nor has Ambrose, we have seen it from a different angle and worded it differently.
When I was single, I knew the next person I met would be my last, so I find it hard to relate to, 'partners are not there for the long run and the next one comes along' I would not put my children through that, man after man, I think that is far worse than trying to resolve a problem where there is conflict between the man I love and the children I love.
For me that is not an issue right now, but I see it the same as any family, who are in difficulty, that love each other, they try to sort it out. Not walk away.
Those are extreme circumstances to me, it would not be a question for me, if a person asked me to choose. I would still explore every possibility, I can tell in a nano second what sort of a man I allow into my life, I did and so far it has worked and this situation could rise, but it would be never so black and white because of the man he is...
However, peeling back the layers and talking about love, and a partnership, then it is not so cut and dried.
For me anyway. I look to the grey area in these dicussions.
My ex husband chose his mistress over his children. Does not make him any lesser of a father. It was untenable to live with me. And they were not grown and left the nest, they were younger than yours are now, Dru.
My stance is that I would not have a partner in my life where I would have to choose.
Regardless of their age. Parenting is not about age, it is always, as I believe Col stated earlier.
I believe this too, Hugs is another one whose son lived with his dad and has recently moved back with Mum.
They do Dru and I see what my friend has been subjected to, what I was subjected to, because I felt the benefit of my children living with their father also was better than just living with me.
Tragic really isn't it? How some are treated, maced, maligned by those who are sniffy about giving up everything for their children, when in fact you, Hugs, and many others have done what they could never do and give your children the best, in that they are allowed to love both parents.
Naturally. This would happen. Her mother disowned her? A life of Dad is a drunk eh? So mum felt abandoned because Dad 'won' the love of his daughter in the end? Without a fight Your daughter came to you because she loved you, her mother disowning her was her own insecurities in that she felt you did not deserve your daughter because of alcohol, how amazing that people feel they need to punish a person with children and losing them when a person is suffering.
Given what I see of you now, I suspect your daughter is right.
She is not well in that she disowned her daughter, soceity did make that of her, and that is when the old agage, 'You cannot change the direction of the wind, but you can alter your sails' comes into fruition, eh?
You're a good man Pat, any person not devoid of any intelligence can see that.
But we are not talking online relationships, we are talking real relationships, where there are real feelings involved and real people.
I don't measure my children's love against that of a love for a partner.
And the posts are there for all to read.
Selfish it may be, but that is the way it is although I do invite you to point out where I, Ambrose can speak for himself suggest for one moment I push my children away.
I have never claimed anything other than being selfish, if you were to read my previous threads, in love.
But please, do highlight where I have said what you have suggested I have said.
But it exists and in it's all superiority that we all have to endure.
Society has set the precedence, for macing people such as mothers apart from their children.
When I split from my ex husband, there was no way he was not going to have the children. I would not have used them against him, yet we see so many people that do.
Soceity deems that we have to hang onto our children and fight and sacrifice what we have borne.
Well, we don't. Do we? Our family law systems are set up so that one parent is favoured over another, money is often the caveat attached to when an estranged parent can see their child. What if that estranged parent cannot afford to support the child? Does that make them a lesser parent.
It will be interesting to see where this discussion goes.
I am posting this in the lounge as I feel it will receive a wider audience.
I have a woman, that I have known for many years, who in essence lost a residency battle for her children. She has them every other weekend, she is filled with love for her children, they are aged 12 and 10. The reason is that she fell apart after her divorce and her husband applied for residency (custody) of the children.
My own mother was apart from her children, my father was awarded custody of my brother and I when I was ten and he, six. Because he was aware that we were not being taken care of. Yet, in no way do I feel that I have missed out and in no way would I allow any person to sully my mother. A very ill woman.
Bringing me to the point of my thread, why does soceity look down on those mothers who are apart from their children?
Yes, priorities must be in order. That includes the one that I love, my children, my father, my brother.
In my posts, nowhere have I put my children second to my partner.
Neither has Ambrose. We have peeled back the layers of the question and explored it deeper.
If you were with a woman who had children, don;t you want to be loved, craved and adored? Isn't that what love is? Feeling all of those things?
It's not a step up from what one feels for their children, it is an aside, a different love, one that makes you feel whole.
I know my kids are damn relieved that I have a person in my life that I love and who loves me, because they were terrified they would have an old spinster for a mother where they would have to visit me every month so I would not be lonely. None of my children, I have three, two biological ones, and one that I adopted when he was nine, have felt threatened by him, they have only embraced him, as he has them...
Like I would never say to him, not the world, I don't care about the rest, I care about us, 'Love me, love my children' he would never say to me, 'me or your children'
There is a difference from walking away from children for a partner, leaving a partner for your children, than looking at what the love is all about...
Well, that is what makes it a special place, because of the different personality traits.
I am not a strong person at all, I can be as weak as a four old on some days, but I know where to go when I feel that way, to people I trust.
We are all different, we view things differently, we are here for different reasons, 'just here for the forums' is one that people have to stress. The fact that the mouth propoganda here is that it is a dating site makes it a very different place from say a forum where one just posts. Which I am on also, because I can step out of the sidelines and I can say 'YOu are bang out of order' There will always be a pack mentality in any group of people, people are attracted to others and will stand their ground, why I don't profess to have many friends here, I like being alone, in my membership here. It suits me and it means when the ricotta hits the fan, I can walk. The fact that my other half is a member is irrelevant.
It's a dating site, like a single's club where the odd few are paired off with others, snipes, arguments and squabbles will happen. How we deal with it, how seriously we take it. I take what I write very seriously and if I have upset a person, then I will deal with it, because they are that, a human being. I do not have the attitude it is only an internet forum. But as with any group of people, there are those that do not like me and those that I do not like and I do what I can to avoid them. Quietly.
I heard all about his love, I had to see the whole thing through. Many women will be wailing in their liebfraumilch now, Stressie has fallen big time. This is where I am at a loss for words. I often sound like the Anti Christ, because I am so against measuring love with one's children to that of a partner, it is completely different. But I can see that people want to be seen as loving parents, of course we do, {I did a 'How it is okay to be a bad mothe'r thread here once and the mails I received about how I was not a bad mother were immense and my point was totally missed) I have been treated as if I had given my kids neat vodka for breakfast sometimes, because I had them 50% of the time, I was happy to palm my kids off, so that I could get on with providing a roof over their heads, least of all to a loving father.
As mine have. Still cost me a damn fortune though, that reminds me, I must talk with my daughter about her latest spending habits.
Well, I was not the one going to say it, but hell, I agree with you.
Our natural instincts as parents is that to protect our little ones. I feel somewhat the same, I am generating towards that as my love grows, slackens off at times, but then comes back with a vengeance where I simply have to face that I am in love. Well if the answers here are anything to go by, then you and I flying a two man plane here. Yes it is and while I do not know the quote you mention, I know for a fact that if I put HIM down in my league of love, then he would be thinking twice about being with me, it is not the cornerstone of parents to oppress the one they love because they have children and let them know that, there is nothing insane about wanting to be craved, if my kids were being sods about me being with him, then he would stand up and tell them straight, 'Don't speak to your mother in that way' to be gentle about it, you know how he is, straight, not afraid to stand up for what is, his love for me, my father, my children, his mother, his father, his sister, his friends. In that I am truly blessed.
Hum, I was probably a tad harsh there, but it is still in my thoughts, more so because I think the responses are so predictable than the question, so I have rethought that one. I take that back. Where my huge annoyance swept over me.
If I were to be faced with that decision, metaphorically, then I would not condemn any person who chose their partner.
Ambrose? This is without prejudice, as our brother T came and hunted me down, the swine. And it brought me back to reading the OP, which is something that I knew the responses would be one sentences, immediately, 'The kids'
We are so fearful of damaging our children, so we choose them straight away, this coming from a child who was raised on 'You're not bad for an accident' Which I have never taken any other way than as a loving comment from my father, who as you know raised me.
My father did choose his children over his wife, he had to, his wife could not look after them, she was and is a psychophrenic, medically confirmed. So there are extremes.
My partner is of the highest value to me, in only the way a loving, strong, sometimes obnoxious way can be.
Would I walk away from him because one of my brats dislikes him, or he has an issue with them?
As I say to my children, I do not always like the company you keep, but I would never walk away from you.
Sommerauer71 Forum Posts (12,414)
RE: Being in love with a family member
Zee? Sometimes I wonder where CS would be without your input.