LILLYLADY Forum Posts (1,293)

RE: Move Israel to the USA

Sure, send 50 mexican jewish couples to Israel. They would be delighted to make aliyah. I'm all for it. They'l even teach you the Havah Nagila mexican style. They can live on a kibbutz with you Ray and you all can pick grapefruits together. Great job with great benefits Ray. You'll be a boom for the Israeli economy. There's an El Al airline ticket on the way now, special delievery to your front door right now.

RE: what is the best movie ever made ........ feel free to suggest alternatives

Er, that should read "An Officer and A Gentleman" It's late at night here and I'm getting tired. Sorry everyone for my mispelling.

RE: what is the best movie ever made ........ feel free to suggest alternatives

An Oficer and A Gentleman

RE: Prove to me....

Sorry Krimsa, guess I'm not the only one you have an attitude problem with. You seem to think that every forum is a debate. The OP specifically did not want this as a debate. Instead of contributing a simple proof of God's non existence as the OP originally asked, you wish to turn it into a debate and then you get condescending to posters who don't agree with you. You are the omnipotent god of all the naysayer forum writers?

Shedman's question was very simple and direct. He has asked it 7x already and I'm not even all the way through the forum. Bollywood had a very good scientific proof of what he thought God was although that wasn't an answer to the OP's original question. And NeWildflower has told you about the experience of her 2 yr old whom she hadn't even taught anything about God so that was a totally unbiased answer out of the mouth of a little child. So since Bollywod stated what he felt God was scientifically and NeWildflower told you what a little child spoke of, now let's hear from you what is your proof of the non-existence of God scientifically? You do claim to be scientific, don't you?

Quit spending so much time on telling us how you don't have to answer to prove that God doesn't exist because no one told you that it does exist. These posters have explained the existence...but I'll bet you can't explain a scientific reason for non existence.

RE: Prove to me....

Out of the mouth of babes...WOW!! Now that child has got some natural information about another dimension that we can only imagine exists. FANTASTIC KID I might say and you were so blessed to hear it from a child.

RE: Prove to me....

We usually disagree Bolly on the political forums, but I truly admire you here and find this posting of yours the best so far and very scientific as an explanation for the proof of explaining God's existence. A terrific contribution here to the forum and not condescending whatsoever in my opinion. You made some really great points there.

Can anyone disprove this?

RE: Can a rational person beilieve in the Bible? or any religion?

Very nicely put! Bravo

RE: Israeli Military Investigates Gaza Killing Reports

RE: Forty Lashes for a 75-year-old Woman for ‘Mingling' with Men

Does anyone know of how the media got hold of this lashing story in the first place? Who contacted the media with this story? Perhaps she contacted relatives from outside her country to tell them what happened? Just curious if anyone has more details?

RE: Israeli Military Investigates Gaza Killing Reports

The Israeli spokesman, Nachman Abramovic demonized Palestinian children stating "They may look young to you, but these people are terrorists at heart. Don’t look at their deceptively innocent faces, try to think of the demons inside each of them … I am absolutely certain these people would grow to be evil terrorists if we allowed them to grow… would you allow them to grow to kill your children or finish them off right now? … honost and moral people ought to differentiate between true humans and human animals. We do kill human animals and we do so unapologetically. Besides who in the West is in a position to lecture us on killing human animals. After all, whose hands are clean?" (quote Norslyman)

Gee, you must not be knowledgeable about the Hamas terror training videos of how they use their children. Try looking at www pmw.org and go to the Mar 25, 2007 Hamas promotes terrorism among children. And see another video how they use the Mickey Mouse character to promote hate.

And then you wonder why Nachim Abramovic demonized palestinian children? There are also other videos of the children being trained to kill Jews. However when these poor children get killed by Israelis, then it's the Israelis that are suddenly demonized.These children are taught from early childhood on to hate and kill.

Can't help but wonder how comfortable you would feel if one of those absolutely innocent faces pointed a gun at you and pulled the trigger and you heard a bang and felt a shot of pain. I doubt you would want to be on the receiving end of the training that these innocent little children have been trained to do so well. Eh? I'm sorry if this seems a bit graphic but really, it is true what they are trained to do from childhood.

RE: Forty Lashes for a 75-year-old Woman for ‘Mingling' with Men

Great point Conrad! You hit the nail on the head directly. Some people do skirt the issue when they get put on the spot to try to defend something they wrote and don't really know what to say. So they basically find it easier to start throwing the forum off either with attack questions or attack accusations at someone so they can skip having to defend their own stupidness.

RE: Can a rational person beilieve in the Bible? or any religion?

Very eloquently said!! Great examples! Bravo!

RE: Forty Lashes for a 75-year-old Woman for ‘Mingling' with Men

Rocketqueen,

Ah, now it just dawned on me. You are sweet on Drew! You would love to see him be mad at me. Go ahead, I will give you permission to cozy up next to him. However, I must warn you that you will have some stiff competition from Mercedes. She can get mighty protective and possessive over her sweetheart Drew.

RE: Forty Lashes for a 75-year-old Woman for ‘Mingling' with Men

Were you one of the guys in the pick up trucks with a baseball bat? OMGosh!

RE: Forty Lashes for a 75-year-old Woman for ‘Mingling' with Men

Gosh Merc and Drew. You two are great with your replies to each other. Sounds like one of the late night "take a breather" moments again. Keep up the good work.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

I see you have a nice view of varying ideas on the flood episode being posted on your other forum. Hmm, seems people are veering towards cataclysmic localized events. And you "beat me up" for that kind of thinking.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

A spat is an argument. I was not trying to debate you, try to change your views or even to get you to agree with me. You seem to have a problem with understanding that. If we both happen to agree on something, I let you know. In fact, I found your information rather interesting until you started putting me down and bashing anything that has to do with a belief in God and insisting that only you are 100% right with words like, "Oh quit it, there is no missing link, that's a bunch of Christian nonsense; how many times does it take God to get this right; is that your loving God at his finest again, and repeat words like "you don't comprehend, I said the jews should have been, don't you understand, so your options here are:These men indeed were divinely inspired and Yahweh is an idiot." It doesn't take much to realize that you were becoming antagonistic, losing site of your scientific thinking. And again with, "Oh brother."

No doubt that in person, you are a genuinely sweet educated lady who is educationally engaging to speak with about paleontology. But you come across very brusk here. You may not believe biblical history but when presented with archaeological ruins that correlate with biblical stuff, you wish not to acknowledge this. That is OK not to acknowledge it, but don't bash someone's belief in God. I don't know your personal spiritual beliefs or lack of them and I don't really want to know.
We had a very healthy exchange of views going on there for awhile until you started using a demeaning sarcasm. I will repost something that I wrote to you as proof that I was truly enjoying what you were writing:

"I'm glad that you do have a different way of seeing things. I however do see things from different ways to. It is not my goal to disprove you but rather clarify that there may be different ways to see things than only scientific. I enjoy scientific as well as correlating things with biblical. It is a pleasure to learn some of the things here which you posted. Thank you again."

Now, do you honestly believe that I was trying to change your views when writing this type of compliment to you? Or did you miss reading this altogether or read something into it that isn't there? It's not rocket science to comprehend that paragraph there. I stand firm on what I wrote in that simple paragraph to you.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

Krimsa,

Reading postings from the start of this forum, I have now seen that you have been in spats with several of the forum posters here. You have undeniably demanded that everyone see things only your way. You have blasted everyone who has had any view different than yours.

I gave you archaeological proof of events and even that isn't good enough. (Archeology and Egyptian Records on pg 16). So did others. But since your specialty is palentology, of course it's now obvious that archaeology isn't your specialty. Archaeology and palentology do not coincide to you so there is the conflict for you why you have to beat everyone up here. It is you who are not comprehending what anyone else has written and distorting factual archaeology finds.

You are so hung up with Lucy as being the final answer to the earliest of humans that even with the article from Robin Lloyd that I posted on pg 14, you would not even open yourself up that there is still an older skeleton than Lucy that is currently being questioned. Other parts of the article speak about the "missing link" in the evolutionary chain of other creatures. Your scientific research stopped a long time ago when you stopped questioning whether there was ever a possibility for more links in the evolutionary chain of creatures. You're basically calling current researchers liars... people who are open enough to study paleontology skeletons as they are newly being found. I wouldn't doubt for a moment and neither do they that there are still skeletons in rocks, ice and sand that haven't been excavated or found as of yet that may lead to shedding more light on the evolution of man and other creatures. Obviously, they keep looking and finding more skeletons. Please remove your blinders.

Quote Krimsa, "Most real scientists agree that the exodus, the plagues of Egypt and the Moses stories are all mythical." Now for the scientific person that you are, that is not a scientific statement to back up something you write...who are the "most real scientists" here?

Quote Krimsa,"It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days." I'd like to see you make that journey on foot in 10 days traipsing thru the desert. No navigational devices or cell phones. And carry all your own food & supplies please. Perhaps you know how to navigate a desert better and are familiar with the weather changes. I'll be waiting for you in 10 days at the mountain.

You criticize the hares and coneys and the bats arguing that God doesn't know how his own creatures operate? The ancient everyday people saw things as they appeared to look like. So the OT in it's description of creatures, it only describes them in the way that people saw them too. There's no mistake on God's part there when writing for everyday people.

Quote Krimsa: "Do you deny the validity of what I just posted in Leviticus?"
And here is my reply that I wrote. "BTW, your postings of the forbidden foods are accurate. As for an answer regarding a bat...if it looks like a bird, sounds like a bird, flies like a bird,.....then for biblical purposes for the people of that era...it is considered a bird." What is it that you do not understand about a simple concept and wish to argue over it?

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

Last thing to make you ponder a bit based on your own postings of your scientific knowledge:

Since when have the Jews been identified as a race of their own based on your scientific education? You use Jew and race very much together here.
Israelites were a people when that lived in Egypt and they took the ways of the Egyptian religion. They were classified as Jews after they received the 10 Commandments, not before.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

Krimsa,
I don't mind trying to answer questions you might have for me. But when you continue to infuse sarcasm and mocking my belief in God and thinking that I am trying to change your views, I do not feel that this is heading towards being a respectful dialogue.

It has never been my intention to change your views but rather exchange views and knowledge and I was very clear about that early on. I am also not trying to make you believe in God either, as that is a moot point. So your being so defensive is getting in the way of your scientific knowledge exchange.

In fact, I have found some of your writings rather interesting. If you really don't want an answer that shows that I have different views than you, then don't ask questions for me to answer.

I also find that whether I do or don't agree with you, you seem to think that I am incapable of understanding what you wrote. If I don't understand something, I will tell you directly and ask you to explain better as you may have noticed I have done at points. However, I may interpret something differently than what your intentions were when you wrote it. That is not the same as being incapable of understanding. So your sarcastic use of words to put me down is very uncalled for. You're coming across now with an attitude of superiority and you are going off on tangents with question after question with sarcasm as your writings progress. You seem to have a problem understanding even when I gave you a compliment early on.

I'll let it go at this as I don't think the dialogue is really an exchange of views to you. Seems you're looking for a fight over history, and I'm not interested. I will respectfully leave the forum and let someone else fight with you if they want.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

According to The Torah, Plaut Edition, pg 12, there is a writing about excavations at Ebla, Syria which have recovered intact, 1000s of hieroglyphic archives of a library of 5 successive kings who ruled an empire based on trade, diplomacy and warfare during the second half of the 3rd millenium. The greatest ruler listed was an Ebrium(or Ebrum)which bears a name similar to Eber, longest lived in the line of Shem(son of Noah).It also speaks of semitic dialects including Hebrew in that area.

A palace in the ruins of the Sumerian city of Mari, Syria has yielded over 20,000 tablets which discuss structure, terminology, and geneologies. Some tribes and clans listed are inked to the Patriarchs by concubinage with an ancestor. It talks of splitting off of tribal segments and migration. This would be the case of Abraham's sons by Hagar and Keturah(Gen
25:6)

So....here would be a place where archaeology and biblical writings intersect a bit possibly.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

He thought it through quite well. One doesn't drown a sea animal that lives in water with water. Water is their lifeline!

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

[quote=krimsaEven a modern day natural disaster on the level of a Tsunami does not produce rain at 6 inches a minute. You are comparing something that is fictional with an actual meteorological occurrence.



I'm not sure if a Tsunami causes a rainstorm Krimsa as my speciality is not meteorology. However, I do know that a tsunami can cause a varying height of a massive wave that could cause widespread flooding.

However, I was wondering if you could possibly answer a question regarding a statement you put forth earlier. Math is not my strongest point so I'm curious as to how you came up with the figures below. Is there some scientific proof you can give to show that this occurred and how you came up with the measurements? I have never heard of the 40 days and nights of rain actually put into figures, considering you have been insisting that the deluge didn't happen.
I do sincerely appreciate your scientific explanation.

40 days and 40 nights of rain raised the ocean levels by 29,000 feet to cover the Earth. How could anyone survive a 30 foot an hour deluge? Approximately 6 in. a minute!(quote Krimsa)

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

How do you explain water creature fossils on top of mountains if they were not under water at some point?


I think people had a pretty tough time surviving the terrible deluge of the last major sunami. Snorkels, hmmm? No, they probably wouldn't survive a major deluge back then unless they were floating in some type of device. And our sunami water onslaught was a sizeable portion of the coasts of several continents and countries. And as you well are aware of what happened to New Orleans with Hurricane Katrina. No telling what phenomena occurred to cause a deluge back then that various civilizations have written about. Aside from the OT that you don't believe in, do you think the other civilization stories are all a bunch of fabrications too? If you think they are all fabricating a flood story, what benefit would it be to do that?

How did you come up with the 29000 ft, 30' an hour and 6" a minute figure?



You can believe in whatever you want based on faith. For some of us, that is not good enough and we look for actual answers based in recovered remains and scientific analysis.(quote Krimsa)

I'm glad that you do have a different way of seeing things. I however do see things from different ways to. It is not my goal to disprove you but rather clarify that there may be different ways to see things than only scientific. I enjoy scientific as well as correlating things with biblical. It is a pleasure to learn some of the things here which you posted. Thank you again.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

Krisma, this 2 page article was for you to review since you enjoy archaeology. I tried to chop it down somwhat though. It's almost 3am so I am a bit bleery eyed. Heading off to sleep now.

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

A papyrus dating from the end of the Old Kingdom was found in the early 19th century in Egypt . It seems to be an eyewitness account of the events preceding the dissolution of the Old Kingdom. Its author, an Egyptian named Ipuwer, writes:

Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
The river is blood.
That is our water! That is our happiness! What shall we do in respect thereof? All is ruin!
Trees are destroyed.
No fruit or herbs are found...
Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
Forsooth, grain has perished on every side.
The land is not light .

This was possibly an eyewitness account of the ten plagues. Since modern men are not supposed to believe in such things, it has been interpreted figuratively historians. The destruction of crops and livestock means an economic depression. The river being blood indicates a breakdown of law an order and a proliferation of violent crime. The lack of light stands for the lack of enlightened leadership.

The invaders of the Early Bronze/Middle Bronze Interchange seem to have appeared out of nowhere in the Sinai and the Negev. Initially, they moved up into the transjordan, and then crossed over north of the Dead Sea, conquering Canaan and wiping out the inhabitants.

Two archeologists have already gone on record identifying the invaders as the Israelites. In an article published in Biblical Archeology Review , Israeli archeologist Rudolph Cohen demonstrated that the two invasions match in every detai. I do not necessarily mean to equate the MBI people with the Israelites, although an ethnic identification should not be automatically ruled out. But I am suggesting that at the very least the traditions incorporated into the Exodus account may have a very ancient inspiration reaching back to the MBI period.
The Italian archeologist Immanuel Anati has come to similar conclusions .. When the conquest is redated to the end of the Early Bronze, history (the Bible) and physical evidence (archeology) are in harmony.


pg 2

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

Here's something else I just found. It somewhat ties in with and exodus from Egypt.
This article was published in the Spring 1995 issue of Jewish Action, put out by the Union of Orthodox Rabbis.

The Exodus and Ancient Egyptian Records

In the course of Pharaoh's stubborn refusal to let the Israelites leave and the resultant plagues sent by God, Egypt was devastated.
According to biblical chronology, the Exodus took place in the 890th year before the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians in 421 BCE (g.a.d. 587 BCE) . This was 1310 BCE (g.a.d. 1476 BCE). In this year, the greatest warlord Egypt ever knew, Thutmose III, deposed his aunt Hatshepsut and embarked on a series of conquests, extending the Egyptian sphere of influence and tribute over Israel and Syria and crossing the Euphrates into Mesopotamia itself.

Both Thutmose III and Ramses II date to a period called the Late Bronze Age, which ended with the onset of the Iron Age. Since the Iron Age has been thought to be the time when Israel first arrived in Canaan, the Late Bronze Age has been called "The Canaanite Period," and historians have limited their search for the Exodus to this time.

According to the midrash , the Pharaoh of the Exodus was named Adikam. He had a short reign of four years before drowning in the Red Sea. The Pharaoh who preceded him, was named Malul. Malul reigned from the age of six to the age of one hundred. Egyptian records mention a Pharaoh who reigned for ninety four years. And not only ninety four years, but from the age of six to the age of one hundred! This Pharaoh was known in inscriptions as Pepi (or Phiops) II . The information regarding his reign is known both from the Egyptian historian-priest Manetho, writing in the 3rd century BCE, and from an ancient Egyptian papyrus called the Turin Royal Canon, which was only discovered in the last century.

Like Malul, Pepi II was the second to last king of his dynasty. Like Malul, his successor had a short reign of three or four years, after which Egypt fell apart. Pepi II's dynasty was called the 6th Dynasty, and was the last dynasty of the Old Kingdom in Egypt. Following his successor's death, Egypt collapsed, both economically and under foreign invasion. Egypt, which had been so powerful and wealthy only decades before, suddenly could not defend itself against tribes of invading bedouin.

pg 1

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

The 3500-year-old-staff in the Egyptian
Gallery, Birmingham Museum, England.
Was this the sacred staff of Moses?

In The Moses Legacy, Graham Phillips takes the reader on an exciting journey into biblical times, using the latest archaeological evidence as well as a new reading of the Old Testament to recreate early Hebrew history. He not only shows that much of the Exodus story can be corroborated, from the flight from Egypt to the conquest of Canaan, but that Moses had indeed existed.

Graham proposes that Moses had in fact been two separate historical figures who later became confused as one. The first, the man who originally converted the Israelites to monotheism, was a dissident court official named Tuthmosis, who was banished from Egypt around 1460 BC, and the second, the man who confronted the pharaoh and led the Israelites out of captivity, was an exiled prince, also called Tuthmosis, who lived around a century later. The word Moses, meaning "the son", Graham suggests, was a later shortening of this original name.

Having identified the historical figures behind the Moses story, Graham then leads the reader on a fascinating quest to discover the very place the Hebrew religion originated. According to the Bible, Moses first discovered God on Mount Sinai when he spoke to him at a burning bush. Also called the Mountain of God, it was here that God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, revealed the holy laws and instructed him to make the Ark of the Covenant. It was here too that God infused Moses’ staff with the power to bring down the plagues of hail and fire, turn day to night, the Nile to blood and part the Red Sea. Although, since Roman times, legend has identified Mount Sinai as Jebel Musa in eastern Egypt, the Bible itself does not directly say where it is. In modern times biblical scholars have fiercely debated its true location, while historians have doubted that such a place ever really existed. Now, by cross-referencing various accounts of the Exodus story given in different books of the Old Testament, and comparing them with the latest archaeological discoveries from the Middle East, Graham Phillips goes in search of the real Mountain of God.

According to the book of Exodus, when the Israelites arrive at the Mountain of God Moses uses his sacred staff to create a miraculous spring. The book of Numbers describes this same event but reveals its location as being at Kadesh, today identified as a mountainous pass on the boarders of the kingdom of Edom in southern Jordan. Now surrounded by the later ruins of the Nabatean city of Petra, a Bedouin shrine still marks the spot where local tradition has long held that the event occurred. Above it, rises Jebel Madhbah, a mountain that precisely matches the descriptions of Mount Sinai given in the Bible. Here, a team of British and Jordanian archaeologists has recently excavated the remains of an ancient Hebrew sanctuary dating from the very time Moses is thought to have lived. Remarkably, in the nineteenth century, a tomb was discovered there that may actually have been the final resting place of one of the historical Moses figures. Inside, along with other artifacts, was a 3500-year-old staff inscribed with hieroglyphics identifying its owner as the court official Tuthmosis, the very man Graham identified as the first Moses. He believes that it was the second Moses who was buried in the tomb, the staff having been inherited by him when he became the leader of the Israelites. The staff is now in the Egyptian gallery of the Birmingham Museum in England and, after careful research, Graham is certain it is the actual staff that the Bible asserts Moses used to perform the miracles of the Exodus.

_______________________________________





English edition: HB Sidgwick & Jackson 2002, PB Pan 2003.



Foreign translations: Sperling & Kupfer (Italian), Tirion (Dutch), Xepmec (Bulgarian).

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

That is not a "missing link" if there is archeological evidence. The skeletal remnants and that link I provided you depict the actual photographs of these transitional human fossils. We have had this in our possession for quite some time now.


Thank you for posting all the human skulls that were in posession through 1999. I found that rather interesting. But there has been more archaeological finds of skeletons since then. You seem to think perhaps that the missing link was found with "Lucy?" Based on further digs, that idea is now being questioned but no one can conclusively state that Lucy is for sure the "missing link" in the realm of evolution. She was only 3.2 million yrs ago and yet you then state we split 6 million yrs ago. So my point is.....as it states below from the article with the word "could" which does not mean "is." So clearly Krisma, I never stated that the "missing link" was positively found. Just need to add this species to the 1999 list if it is man.Or add it as a species of it's own until more skeletons are unearthed. Is it the "missing link?" Not really sure at this point.

"Quote the article again, "All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face.

It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years."

RE: DIVINE CREATOR or Darwin's Theory ?

Gee Krisma,
My article did not state that we evolved from chimpanzees. I personally believe there may be an ancestor like Lucy or even predating Lucy that would have characteristics of man and perhaps something in the chimpanzee, gorilla or whatever family and somehow, that is where the missing link occurs. I'm not touting fundamentalist Christianity either and it wasn't Wyatt that I was referring to in my article. I think Croatulus posted the Wyatt article as different from what I posted. There is an archaeologist involved in my article.
My article states that they don't think they have found the missing link of man yet but have found the missing link of a variety of other species of creatures.
I appreciate both you and Croatulus with your views. But I do believe that biblical history and archaeology have intertwined at some points. Even the Egyptian religion of the Sun God Ra has archaeological historical ruins written and found in the pyramids and tombs in Egypt. And the Incan or is it Aztec culture religion with their child sacrifices to their Gods...the mummies are still being found up high in the Andes. I wouldn't doubt their religious history when it is proven by archaeological finds, would you?