Ambrose2007 Forum Posts (8,881)

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Well, I wonder, C, if you're talking about something I've been thinking about. I think it's obvious that when one of my girlfriends were told "I love you, gf" by their friends or even their best friend, there was a missing gravitas as it were that is present between lovers. I'm not sure I'd call what I'm thinking of sincerity exactly, but rather "intensity." I think that can be very comforting for a woman, but when a relationship turns sour it can become exactly the opposite of comforting.

I certainly agree, in my case, about putting my heart and soul into loving a woman. Thus far, that hasn't been returned, but no doubt there are good reasons for that. Still, I don't see why a woman couldn't do the same thing...

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

RE: How do you judge the success of your life?

1) Self-awareness (incorporating knowledge and wisdom); 2) realizing my talents; 3) loving relationships - especially of the romantic variety.

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Could it be that marriages no longer last because some of the clarity of the "protector"/"nurturer" roles have been blurred by current culture?

We evolved to have a particular kind of relationship, but our culture has changed that evolved relationship in little more than the blink of an eye.

I've had girlfriends who relished the idea of a 50s type relationship, but couldn't see how that would be possible and still retain today's prescribed independence for women. Now I think men and women still want the same kinds of things, but don't know how to get there any longer.

And the results is LOTS of independent and alone people, I'm thinking. Nice post, C.

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Oh, dear...

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

My shoulders are fairly broad, too, CC, but they do tend to chafe in the wind or sun, and get all goosebumpy if it's cold outside (like below 68 degrees).

So I guess I know what you mean.

By the way, that puts me ahead 3 - 2.

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Yeah, I'm feeling a bit tongue-tied, J.

I don't think the man-woman dynamic really reduces to who washes the dishes or mows the lawn or takes out the garbage or washes the car or paints the house or changes the car oil. My girlfriends have always done those things.

No, I think the male-female dynamic goes deeper than that.

I don't even think it matters who wears the dresses or high heels or makeup or who cries when they watch Love Story for the 100th time.

Those things are just window-dressing, yanno? It's about something deeper...something almost mystical and yet completely down to Earth...something that...well, it's hard to put into words.

Something that goes to the very core of man and woman.

So now do you want to change your answer, J?

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Someday we'll look back on this and laugh. It may require a few reincarnations, but some day...

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Now this is the kind of real reflecting that I've been looking for here. Thanks, Moose!

I wonder how many men, in their deepest selves, feel this way. I would guess it's an extremely high percentage, and that if they deny it there is likely hell to pay. Or maybe "heck"?

I'm trying to arrive at the essential nature of what attracts men and women to each other.

As a man, I would look for nurturing, support, that kind of thing - you know, while I'm out killing a mammoth or, in my case, perhaps a vicious field mouse.

I've had this discussion many times with...various girlfriends...and what I've seen is that every woman has something of this "submit" thing going...

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

You're such a sensitive guy, Bob.

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

You know me, CC, I like to keep things simple.

Now let's not be modest, gf. What have your POWER ISSUES been?

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Thanks, Vinny.

What's been your experience? Have you been happy with the "power politics" in your relationships (assuming you would even recognize issues related to power in them)?

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Ah, the struggle for dominance begins (jeez, I must remember not to wear my wigs or high heels!)

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

BB are you already taking over this thread?

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Hey, J!

When I think of more traditional male-female roles I often think of you and your mate.

Do you feel your man should be the primary decision-maker in your family? Or do you feel that should be exactly 50%?

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Well, you're certainly someone I've been curious about with respect to this question, Single.

I seem to recall that your current decision was based on a very bad relationship - one that placed you in a more or less distrustful place regarding men (please refresh my memory if I'm wrong...have been a tad distracted of late ).

Here's a question I have, drawn from my romantic experiences (please note "experiences" as a general not specific reference!!). When you have a woman's trust, they are far more inclined to allow you to assume what I'll call traditional male roles. What is a "traditional male role"? I'm not glad you asked that question.

Seriously, I'm referring to the role of "wearing the pants" in a family - being the primary decision-maker and so forth. Perhaps that role might be stretched to dominance/or being domineering - and that's part of what I want to discuss here...the distinction (or if you believe there is a distinction? )...but I don't necessarily believe that being a leader in a relationship is a bad thing.

So...when your relationship was good, did you feel the desire for independence, or did that desire begin to crystallize as your relationship deteriorated?

In other words - and this is for all women here - how much of your desire to be "independent" derives from an innate desire to avoid "masculine direction" in your life as opposed to a mate you no longer trust? Could "masculine leadership" feel wrong when you stop trusting your man, or does it feel wrong period?

(I anticipate someone answering "Uh huh")

Men and Women: What Is Their Natural Power Relationship? (A ThreadThat Is Not About... )

Observing some of the recent posting behavior here got me to thinking about how men and women tend to think differently and what, exactly, is it that we are looking for from each other in terms of meeting very basic emotional needs.

Are men naturally leaders in a romantic relationship, or should relationships be gender-blind - that is, should the dynamics of the relationship involve exactly reciprocal needs and actions?

How much can we say about the differences between men and women's attitudes that is actually related to gender (if anything)?

Does a conflict exist between "socially correct" views of men-women relationships and the emotional reality of these relationships?

What do men need from women and vice versa?

Are women less logic-minded in general than men, or do the two genders approach reasoning differently in any substantive respect?

These and many other corollary questions await answers from the many brilliant men and women here on CS.

RE: Red Flags

That's an excellent point, Lang. First, recognizing one's own Red Flags...wow, that's one of life's great challenges, I think. They're warnings that something is amiss in you or your life - something that you can change to your benefit...perhaps even great benefit. But if you feel contempt toward weakness, toward the idea of red flags, then you probably won't have the stomach to see them in yourself. If you're compassionate toward yourself, however, I think that makes it bearable to face your weaknesses unflinchingly. When you don't feel compelled to judge yourself harshly, you can stand doing that, I think.

At the same time, I think you need to make an honest, unflinching accounting of what you've done wrong and right. Sometimes I've been accused of being too self-critical or of wallowing in guilt/regret, but that was a misunderstanding. I really don't beat myself up that much. Just a good firm smack upside the head from time to time does it.

I know I've done wrong in my last relationship. I have the strength to acknowledge that. But I also know I wasn't the only one who did wrong. That's where I and my ex disagree.

RE: Red Flags

Right. But I see now that there is a difference between criticisms aimed at one's partners character and critical suggestions. At a minimum, you got to assume your partner's basically a good person. If you or your partner doesn't believe that, there's not much to build on, is there?

RE: Red Flags

Never!

RE: Red Flags

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Can't we all just get along?

RE: Red Flags

I strongly disagree.

RE: Obama will make frennds with outor space aliens for outor gullacti piece!!! TELEPORT!!

I keep thinking...shouldn't Hot Single Dude have authored this thread? (The title certainly contains the requisite number of misspellings and logical absurdity?)

RE: Red Flags

Which I pointed out.

Congrats on a good thread, btw.

RE: Red Flags

Heh - here I was pointing out the departure - meaning I'm implicitly acknowledging the divergence from the thread subject - and for that acknowledgment I become the target? Seems unjust somehow.

And I didn't start this topic, btw. I'm far more interested in the red flags subject, having lots of philosophic lists where I can discuss such things.

I prefer to discuss relationships on CS. But sometimes distractions occur. If you've been here awhile, you'd know that.

RE: Red Flags

They're too smooth to be grabbed, wouldn't you think?

RE: Red Flags

I suppose that's true - that even we relatively undriven (finance-wise) libertarians are generally well-enough off to have the luxury for such contemplations. But the same could be said, I'm sure, of anyone who has time for contemplation - certainly including Marx.

If you include "moderately okay, financially speaking" as "privileged," then your point would hold. I don't think it does hold, unless you count being able to pay your bills and afford some basic necessities as "privilege," which would pretty much obliterate the meaning of that word as universally understood.

What I said applies to "right-libertarians" as well. As a whole (in my experience), they are neither adept at or interested in business. They love the free market but aren't practitioners of entrepreneurship.

RE: Red Flags

I think these exchanges might qualify as a CS record for posting off the thread topic (despite that happening all the time...rarely have I noted such an extreme departure!).

RE: Red Flags

That last made me laugh out loud. I think you know libertarians about as well as you know Ayn Rand (very, very passing familiarity). Libertarians, by and large, are about the least materialistic-oriented people you would ever meet. God, money-grubbing libertarians are about as rare as...well, female libertarians. You'd be vastly more likely, when encountering a libertarian, to hear a long philosophic analysis or discussion of some book on economics than find some rogue capitalist. And when you enter their usually very modest homes, you will probably find a large library of books, not a big fancy car or expensive stereo system.

Libertarians by and large are about ideas. Sure, in principle they support free markets, but are not likely at all to be hard-driven capitalists. There are some notable exceptions, but after having spent decades with these dudes, I think I can attest to the above with some degree of accuracy.

You've read Atlas Shrugged and seen a few interviews, eh? Well, I guess that makes you better qualified than some to offer an opinion on her ideas. Your attempted summation above seems more of a summation of what you've taken from her ideas than her ideas themselves. Rand didn't spend a lot of time - almost none, in my reading - on the validity of subjective ideas. Her writings took a rather narrow view of subjectivity; mainly, she was concerned with contrasting her objective epistemology with more subjective models. I don't believe she ever wrote anything exploring subjects that are reasonably subjective. She did, however, extend her "objectivity" into areas usually reserved for "subjectivity" - for example, music, when she declared that Beethoven's music portrayed a poor sense of life, and therefore was suspect or even inferior to music which expressed a better sense of life.

Rand was legendary for imposing her values on others - for treating her tastes as "objective standards" (even if she didn't offer a formal philosophic exegesis for them). For example, she would decry someone for not smoking since smoking was what rational, heroic people did (this was earlier in her life; later, she, I believe, rescinded that particular belief).