The thread was not meant specifically to deal with the "gay" issue...I know it is a controversial subject....as is alot of other things...
What i was trying to get at is whether or not people really feel they can "speak their mind" about any given topic and not feel intimidated if their view oppose the "majority"...
A person's view is going to change if they really want it to change, and for the most part i am not here on the forums to try and change anyone's view on any given topic, merely to offer my own opinion of same...
Sometimes i play "devils advocate" just to bring to the table different views that can be discussed, or perhaps just give something to think about...
As my friend Alex said..."without challenge there is no conflict"...
If i "challenge" someone to clarify their statement, does not mean i necessarily disagree with it, i'm just trying to find out what prompts their answer...and therefore perhaps build on my own...
Yes that is where the thought for this thread came from Baha...
As you said there are the "power houses" on the forums...i may have chosen a different word, however it remains the same interpretation, but let me say those that become "power houses" (perhaps even myself) become that because they ARE willing to take the heat and defend their views...
Name calling and mudslinging will occur regardless...but those are "minor" things when one is arguing a point...
I know it gets "tiresome" at the best of times Bella...but that is what makes a "forum" successful..is the different points of view and a "healthy argument" defending views...
But i know there are days when you just want to reach into the screen and shake someone...or you just shake your head and sign out...
Lots happening...i'm moving at the end of the month...and of course instead of packing i'm sitting here on the computer as if the "packing" fairy will come and do it for me....did i also mention that i have no clue where i'm moving to at the end of the month??
..." also think there's something to be said for...disagreeing with a viewpoint, and not the person behind "...
That's an excellent point Lori...I think that happens on the forums alot where because of "who" the originator of a thread is, views tend to "change"....
Though i see many viewing the thread...not many are posting...on the international site the thread has taken off a bit more...so i'm just going to post my answer from there on here...it is how i feel about "speaking your mind" on the forums...
The reason some "topics" get out of hand in my opinion is that people tend to defend their views based on "emotions" rather than "facts"...
That is not to say you should not be "passionate" about what you believe and defend it as such...but most oft times your personal "emotions" are not enough to get someone to see your point of view...it takes "facts" to educate another and bring them around to seeing your point of view...mud slinging---name calling--- that just doesn't cut it...
And that also does not mean that at the end of the day one should not be willing to "Agree to Disagree"...or even say their own mind has been changed based on the well laid out "argument" of another!
The reason some "topics" get out of hand in my opinion is that people tend to defend their views based on "emotions" rather than "facts"...
That is not to say you should not be "passionate" about what you believe and defend it as such...but most oft times your personal "emotions" are not enough to get someone to see your point of view...it takes "facts" to educate another and bring them around to seeing your point of view...mud slinging---name calling--- that just doesn't cut it...
And that also does not mean that at the end of the day one should not be willing to "Agree to Disagree"...or even say their own mind has been changed based on the well laid out "argument" of another!
..."we keep throwing money at the problem, with no real long term affect. Can be compared to an addiction that we continue to enable? Do you think that if we keep feeding it versus resolving "...
You have absolutely put into words what i had been trying to say (you obviously did a better job than i...) this statement you made sums it up in the entirety..Well said Jane!
Do you really feel you can speak your mind on the forums?...I know there are many who absolutely speak their mind (me being one of them!)..but if YOU don't why do you feel you can't?
Is there a topic you stay away from because you just know that your views are not reflective of the "majority"?
Do you agree/disagree with things said on here, but are unwilling to defend your point of view on it??
Do you really feel you can speak your mind on the forums?...I know there are many who absolutely speak their mind (me being one of them!)..but if YOU don't why do you feel you can't?
Is there a topic you stay away from because you just know that your views are not reflective of the "majority"?
Do you agree/disagree with things said on here, but are unwilling to defend your point of view on it??
..."we would just have more and more on the system bleeding it bone dry because they cannot get back on their feet and only continue moving forward in a negative manner, which does none of us any good."...
And that point takes us back to the original question of sending funds overseas....as long as there is "aid" from other countries, the country in question will never attempt to rectify its own problems...there is no incentive there for them to do so..
I had a similar situation happen to me...not to the extent of yours but along the same lines...
As far as i was concerned the person whom i had "bonded" and made a "frienship" with was not the person in front of me...and therefore I had no qualms about ending the "relationship"...
I was very hurt and devastated to say the least, because we had gotten along so well...and at any time he could have told me the truth, but he waited to long for that, my trust had been broken and there was no repairing that. I probably would have liked him just as much had i known the truth, but he never gave me that option...
He continued to message me...i never opened any just deleted them all and though on and off he continues to message me, i still just leave them unopened and delete...like you...I will not compromise myself for someone like that.
Myself personally have never had a problem with the "native status", however i do not have personal day to day dealings with them, though my cottage property is on what is termed as an "indian reservation" and therefore my property tax is paid directly to their council rather than the government.... The word "native" has always been the reason i guess as to why i do not pay much mind to it...if it is what is due them then i guess that is their winfall... If I began to dissect such things i would be worrying daily if my neighbour is paying as much in taxes as me, whether my co-workers are being paid the same as i..etc etc...do you understand where i am coming from with this?...I do not begrudge people what is rightfully there's...good or bad...
As far as "understanding" why third world countries "need" these handouts...yes i do "understand"...It still does not make it right that millions of our hard earned tax dollars go towards supporting another country....
You don't mind our money going overseas to help the needy, but you oppose the government allowing privileges to the "natives" of Canada??...
It's been about .97 here in the Durham region, and both the Esso and some Petro Can stations are closed...which means i have to use what little gas i have left searching for a gas station to buy more gas....
There will always be "citizens of convenience"...always be "abusers of the system"... But until Canada and the "uninformed" Canadians stop turning a blind eye to the problem it will just continue...and in the interim they will cultivate the resentment of Canadians being "forced" to contribute to their "cause"
I think as a rule Canadians are compassionate and generous people, but no one likes to feel like they are being "forced"..which is what the government is doing all the while pretending this is "democracy"
Baha this is what i meant that one cannot be "middle of the road" here...I was not being antagonistic...just calling it how i see it
You weren't specific about which "minority" group is receiving retribution so i can't really comment on that...
However as far as whether or not its an acceptable handout...this is where your own words come back to haunt you...
..." These people are not in Canada and are not born with the same privledges that we as Canadians are. I can see how they as a group of people can have a hard time and need help to get out of the rut that their countries are in"...
As you say part of the "privilege" of being Canadian and living in this country are those "handouts"... acceptable or not...because as a "Canadian" they are entitled to it just as any other Canadian would be....so is it acceptable for this "minority" group to receive handouts?...well by your own words apparently yes...because they are now "Canadians"....
As well...one of the solutions (obviously) for these people that need help to "get out of the rut" they are living in...is to claim refugee status here in Canada (which they do)...and therefore become entitled to the "privileges" of being Canadian....right??..Or did you mean it is okay to send as much help that is needed to those underprivileged people...as long as they stay there?
You see the thing is you cannot be "middle of the road" here...that is not an option, you either stand for it...or against it...it cannot be okay only when it doesn't "encroach" on your principals
...Will there ever be a point these countries will no longer require or expect financial aid from other countries?"...
What is there incentive to become self-sufficient when there are so many countries in the name of humanity willing to send money hand over fist to them... And remember this is money we will never collect on...its not a loan...its a giveaway...we will never benefit in our lifetime from all the "aid" we have sent their way....
I find it obscene to "use" those "starving children" as a form of manipulation for generous people to hand over their hard earned money...just as i find it obscene to say that because they have "nothing else to do all day"....they get busy making more babies they cannot support...
Every country adapts to what their climate is...what can be grown or not grown, what can be harvested from the land...Africa and such countries did not just come into existence...people have lived off those lands for thousands of years....
Thank you Evil Ed and Hidden Prince for trying to understand where i am coming from....
It is all well and fine to show those ads of dying starving children...I wonder if their own television stations are showing those ads as well....does anyone realize that the leaders of those countries are driving around in vehicles that WE will NEVER OWN..and living in homes WE CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT??...and why??? Because there are the "concerned" countries that will continue to "support" their people...and all the while they are all the way to the bank....
You think there is no "birth control" available to those people?..Where to you think part of your "charity" money is going?? They realize that the need is there to control the population of their country...but yes you are right it is their own right as humans to reproduce as they want....i assume you also mean that their right stops their, because then the result of that god-given right somehow passes over to others???
Please don't misunderstand me...I do sympathize with the innocents in this political game...my heart does break for those children and the mothers of those children...remember i am a mother too...and i would be totally void of compassion if i said otherwise...
But this must be a day for "cliches"...have you ever heard the saying,...
Though i can see where you are coming from Baha...let me just say this..I am originally from what one may consider a "third world country"...so yes i have seen poverty first hand...
And to Koldawne...I have worked for the Public Trustee's office here in Ontario...and i have first hand knowledge of why a good percentage of those people are living on the streets and looking for "somewhere" warm to curl up on....and its not what you are thinking...some of those people have more money than you and I put together....
Also Baha...being a "rich country" and a "deficit free" country is two differnt things...and yes Canada is in the top ten "richest" countries in the world (Luxembourg and USA leading the group)...however it is known that the Middle East and Japan houses the most financially richest people in the world...
In any case...whether you live in Africa or in Canada it is your right to have or not have children (and by the way there is only one real way i know of conceiving children....)and we all make choices everyday as to whether or not to expand our families based on how many we can afford...so i guess at some point a "priority" of the day has to be made??
I do not oppose "giving" to the countries that are in need...but here's another saying i heard while growing up...
Give a man a fish...and he will eat today....teach a man to fish..and he will eat every day....
Thanks Angel...every time i drag myself off to work i think about that "Almighty dollar" i supposedly make...
Lets see..when i break it down somewhat (and of course this is guesstimation...)
For each $1.00....
65% goes to "taxes" (leaving .35 cents)...
so then i take my 35 cents to the store where i am taxed another 15% leaving me with .20 cents...
And i guess when i lay my weary self down at night...and think of all i had to get accomplished at work that day for my .20 cents...I am proud to be a Canadian???
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all the way to the bank....
Loss Of Middle Ground
There was an article today that i briefly looked over in the paper about the "middle class" people...It seems that those once known as the "average middle class" is now under the threat of becoming extinct...
The rich are getting richer, the poor are going no where and the gap that separated the two (middle class) is getting smaller every year....
What are your thoughts on this??