Dude, I am self employed. And I have been fortunate when it come medical problems and issue. I am 58, about 8 months ago began to take some high blood med and Chylorisal med.....get this.....$16 a month. Both are are on Walmarts low cost med program.
My dad in his 80, had triple by pass....at one time was taking 23 different med a day......now down to 7 med a day.He get them from the VA.....average cost is $3 for a 3 month supply for a med.
Every one here is different when it comes to meds. Ship seems like he he is the unusual situation there....with a med the is very expensive.
What I am saying is this.....that for most of the common medical treatments......the Walmart low cost med program has some 2000+... different meds on it.....where the average price is $4 per month.....you can find low cost medication here in the country. Sure the unusual meds do go up siginificantly.
So I don't buy it, that Americans cannot afford thier medical cost when it comes to medications. Sure when it comes to major surgery, or long term re hab, or some major illness that is a different matter. But on basic medications......no.
And Alfalfa.......note no vigra taken here.....:-)
Seems like a thin news day. Was the least violent month in Iraq for several years. And another Army Bridgade was withdrawn from Iraq. Missioned Accomplished, Guys.....head home safely. Also, Thank you to the Australians that are also headed home. Safe travels, Blokes! Uncle Sam owes you. We remember our friends.
Teddy Kennedy had a surgery. Get Well Teddy. Full recovery fast.
Getting rains here in Florida. Hopefully will knock down some of the wild fires we have had.
Also this little dittie. As much as Rev. Wright detests the American gov't and what it stands for. Trinity Church has taken some some $12m in Federal Gov't grants. All for food proprams, day care centers, and other legit social service programs. So they do have other things going than ranting and mocking going on at the Church. That is good, they balance it out like that.
The American Civil War ended on this day, a 143 years ago. One of the best things that happened in our countries hisotry.
Oh yes, Barak Obama is very near to being the nominee for the Democrastic Party for the Presidency of the United States. Good luck in the effort and a safe and honorable campaign.
Coulter has the title of her book right. While I may not agree 100% with her.......it is true.....If the Democratics were smart, they would be Republicans.
A bad plan of little merit to create a polical issue costs the fair representation of 1000s of Dem Floridans, Ras.. Is exactly what happened here.
The Democrat had four different way to resolve this with losing any representation to Florida voters.
1) Oppose it in the FL House and Senate 2) Try to get it pigeon holed there (look the term up if you don't know it) 3) S.1905 4) Enact their own fairness clause of their rules of order
They did not do any of it......except what you are doing now.....making a political issue and pointing at the Rep.
Also wish to know how many other states that the Dem have approved for early voting? Think Florida was the first?
The DNC has approved a pre window (early voting) for: Iowa/NewHampsire/Neveda/South Carolina/ Michigan requested it in 2004 and was nearly approved for it.
Congress can make laws anytime it is in session. It was in session to hear the DNC on this. I guess by your standards of laws...the DNC Rules over ride anything that the Unites States Congress places out there. Interesting Ras.
Hillary should take this all the way to the convention and to the certification committee and those FL court cases should go thru. Whether they will, I don't know. One thing I do know....Dems played a hand and they got caught playing it.
Just suggestion Twinkles1994.....some decide at a very young life that the military is for them. If he is one and is truely dedicated to it. He will ultimately enlist. My suggestion is to consider sending him to military school. The extra schooling and training are life savers in this.
My grandfather saw WWII coming....sent his two eldest sons that were both draft age.....to one. It helped to keep them both alive.
Also it is more likely that he will become a officer....and be considered for a Academy appoinment if he attends one.
That a McCain Republican is explaining your own DNC fairness clause and the game that was played on the FL Dem Delegates....should speak volumes to you.
Quotes from the DNC to the Committee on Rules and Administration United States Senate on S.1905 Sept 18, 2007.
S.1905 was legislation to set the primary times and to correct the MI and FL issue.
Some on the DNC Fairness clause in its Rules of Order. It likely sound like this:
"Achieve the common goals of fairness, inclusion, diversity and maximum participation by all voters of each party in their party's nominating process."
The fairness clause normally supersceeds all the other provisions of rules of order. With a dispute they can come back to a fair ruling.
The 500 Democrat are debating whether Florida and Michigan deligates should be sat or other wised punished for the change in primary dates. See the words "maximum participation"? By giving the two states either a partial seating or a partial vote per deligate, they are breaching this basic concept of their own fairness clause. Assuming this Florida state law was unfairly made, all they had to do was come here.
So do they have the right to deny the two states this maximum participation? Yes. But the DNC rules tell how much penalty.
"The one exception was Florida, where the legislature passed, and the Governor signed, a law providing for a binding presidential preference primary to take place on January 29, 2008. The state party submitted to the DNC a delegate selection plan providing for use that primary to allocate delegate to the Convention, in violation of the DNC rules."
'The punishment is a automatic reduction of 50% of the deligates. The lost of the State's super deligates that are from Congress and a Democratic Governor of the state'
Watch:
"At it meeting on August 25, 2007, the DNC RBC found Florida's plan in non compliance with DNC rules, and vote to increase the sanction against Florida by reducing the state's deligation by 100%."
Really nice guys. First, the legal 50% of the deligates and then take away the remaining 50%. Where in the DNC laws says that they can do that? They had already assessed the punishment. Realized it was not getting enough media exposure, so they upped the punishment. Talk about not playing by the rules, Ras!
To keep others:
"To date, the DNC's effort to enforce the rules have been, except as to Florida, successful in preventing other states from scheduling events prior to the February 5 in violation of the rules."
At this point Congress is working on S.1905.
Again:
"The DNC does believe that the responsiblity for establishment of the rules for selection of the delegates to each national party's nominating convention should remain with each national party."
Basically they don't want Congress to pass a law on primaries and resolve this issue of MI and FL.
And does Florida have a responsibility mandated to the selection of the of President?
A Surpreme court ruling.
"Cousin v. Wigoda 419 U.S. 477.487 (1975) "The State themselves have no constitutional mandated role in the great task of the selection of President and Vice President canidates"
A get of jail card.
The Conclusion:
"For the reason stated above, the DNC expresses its hope that the Congress would not, at this time, take any action on federal legislation addressing the scheduling of presidential primaries and caucus. We respectfully urge the Senate Committee on Rules and Adminsitration not to report favorably on S. 1905 or any similar legislation on this matter."
Basically, the DNC blocked legislation to resolve the FL and MI deligate issue back in Sept 18, 2007 in a Democratic controlled Senate. DNC wanted this mess from the beginning as a both a payback to Florida on the 2004 Presidential Election recount AND for a self constructed political issue.
The 500 in the Rule Committee meeting did not have the moral courage to defend the FL and MI voters with the fairness clause of the DNC. The fairness clause is there for the voter, Ras..not the party or the canidate.
Ras, want to know how I know that there is a game being played by your DNC? Pretty simple man.
If the DNC rule committee that met yesterday, felt that the Florida Republican had 'tricked' the Democratic into this, which is what you are saying, yes?
Then they had such an easy way to solve the it.
Just seat them all and give them all full votes.
They did not have to enforce the rules on primary date changes. It is the committee option to enforce such rules, and if the committee felt foul play had occurred......then....they could have done the right thing with a full vote to each deligate.
Check your Rules of Order. It is there.
You can either make special exception and can declare the a rule void if foul play or some unfair act occurs.
They did not have to enforce it. That is likely what they told the FL DNC at the beginning. That if you get voted to the different date we will not enforce it. And why the FL DNC was so ticked off at the Dem National Committee, when they flipped on the agreement.
The Requested State Deligate Signs for the DNC in Dever, CO August, 2008 Presidential Convention
Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansaw California Connecticut Delaware Flor Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Lousisiana Maine Massashuetts Mich Minnesota Missippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Neveda New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylanvia Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Washington West Virgina Wisconsin Wyoming
read this -------------------------------- ----------------------------------- \ / \ / ''The D.N.C. apparently wants us to campaign on the slogan of 'Make sure not a single vote counts,' '' said State Senator Steven A. Geller
Who is the DNC, Ras? Geller is a Dem here. This all was written up after the the parties made the request to the state to change the date.
When I heard that the parties wanted a change in the primary date, I thought they were crazy to ask for a primary date change on a Presidential election year. Why lose deligate seats? It is nuts.
read this ------------------------- -------------------------------- \ / Incensed by the sanctions, even though he knew they were possible when he voted in May to change the primary date, Mr. Geller scrapped plans to endorse former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina
Who voted for it in Florida senate and house? Dems did...actually both of them did. Ask a question. Why? Because they thought DNC and RNC would not punish them.
Why were they incensed by the sanctions? Find that answer and you have an answer to what I allude to earlier. They were incensed because they did not think that they would get them.
Would you not run a change of primary date by your National before taking it to the floor for a vote, Ras? Sure you would and they did....both parties....the Nationals gave them tentative 'go ahead, we will not cut your deligates', then both flipped on them.
read this --------------------------- ------------------------------------ \ / ''They're playing into a trap set by the Republican Party,'' Mr. Hogan said. ''It's pretty much that simple.''
Hogan got this wrong, Ras. They were flipped by their Nationals. In my opinion.
read this --------------------------- --------------------------------------- \ / \ / But State Representative Dan Gelber, the minority leader, said Democrats' opposition would not have made a difference. Besides, he said, many of the state's 4.25 million registered Democrats wanted an earlier primary.
The Dem voters wanted the change and had pressured the FL DNC for it.
But to really understand this. You got to go back and find out who intiated the motion before it was brought to the floor of Florida Senate and House. I am saying both parties intiated it. Grasping the idea now? Then got tenetative agreement with the nationals. Floored the motion and voted it in. Then the Nationals flipped on the agreement.
There were some back page new articles prior to this date on where the motion came from. As I remember (it was 20 months ago) it was both parties that motioned it. Just like the votes both supported it. I will dig around and try to find them. I thought it was crazy then, for either party to move the date and lose deligate seats. Simply did not make sense. So why change?
Even in this article Ras, the answer is there. You got to read between the lines some. The DNC and RNC flipped on a earlier unpublic and tentative agreements on this. Fearing they would have a flock of states changing dates and they would lose super Tuesday, after they gave tentative agreements to approving it for Florida.
The question to ask is why did the Nationals approve the tenative agreements? And then flip?
Dude did you read my post on mocking foreign countries? And the impact it would have? If these guys will mock his political opponet, they will mock foreign leaders, countries, cultures, races, and religions.
Each would be an embaressment to his administration. And a method for them to play into international politics. They don't even need now with the media that they gained, to be in a gov't office or connected to him. The media will pick it up and make news.....
Not just that they are in a position to embaress the country and the Presidency by their connection with him. My little hypothetical is the real deal on this. You want to shut down talks on something faster than a snapping turtle pulls its legs and head into the shell....that is the way to do it.
Barak may want to go meet with all these leaders of foreign countries now.......after Rev. Wright or Father Pfeleger or others get thru mocking thier country, customs, culture and religion...not sure the door will be open for him to do it.
In essence they can use this to force him to talk with only those they approve. Imagine the first time he has a meeting with the say the Isreali prime minister.....and one of them does a Jewish rant?
Dude, we try to avoid 'bloody political battles on tv and in the news and on the net'. We have had them in the past. People get killed and injured in them and democracy is not done in them. I know you are speaking in Canidate campaign battles. But bad choice of words, OK?
The best thing that democracy offers is a peaceful change of power. But if the political process to make the change of power is a bloody one, then it is a failure of the country and its people that allowed it to occur.
Also those Puerto Ricans.....on the streets.....just might have been McCain supporters.....not Hillary Dem voters. Free speech babe, free speech.
LOL....you guys are tieing everything to McCain....GWB and McCain....Hillary and McCain.....Dem Voters and McCain......Rev. Wright and McCain....Carl Rove and McCain ...........the kitchen sink and McCain.....ever stop and think that this is pretty good free political advertising for McCain? Remember that comment I made a few threads back....every time you mention the opponets name.....is a good thing for him?
She has the popular vote now and has beat him in the major deligate states. Has a right to take Fl and MI to the certifications committee during the DNC. And just swamped him in the last large last primary.
Sounds like time to quit to me.
Opal, she has been at this for going on 16 months now. The lady is not going to quit. I expect when you go up to do the introduction speech for Obama at the DNC, she is going to shove you off the stage. Make a one last plea to have a recount on Fl And MI and then take the mike away so you cannot use it.
Please, the last para was said in jest.
But I think that you have to see this for what it is. That until Barak makes the magic number and it is solid....meaning that the super deligates have reconfirmed thier vote....which they can change. The lady is staying in the race.
Any suggestions for the President comments to the South Florida voting Cubans that feel opening relationships with a Castro run Cuba is a bad idea? These are only the men and women that lost thier homes and businesses to Castro as he took the Island over. Had thier relatives imprisoned by him and sent thier sons to Bay Pigs.
Be realistic here some. There is not a ballot cast in Cuba. There are several million cast in south Florida that are cast by Cuban Americans. Florida a key state this year....ok one with only 1/2 of it primary deligates.....but come November......it is number 3 in the country in electral deligates.
So put yourself in a canidate's position some. Hey Cuban Americans, I am going to open the door with Cuba. You get the benefit of traveling to Cuba and seeing all the properties lost. You get the benefit of seeing the prisons where they kept your relatives. You get the benefit visiting on the tour, a beach called Bay of Pigs. Maybe you can make other suggestions?
I think this is a hard sell. Noble as the idea is. The political realism is weak.
Ras, you got it wrong. The two parties ...the Florida Dem and the Florida Rep.......went to the state and requested a time change on the State Primary. To advance it.
It was not the State of Florida idea. It mostly came by the way from the Florida Dems. They felt that with it being advanced in time, it would be more important and carry more weight than a super Tuesday primary.
State says...sure we got no problem with the change....we will do it anytime you want.
But now both state parties are in hot water with thier respective National parties for advancing the date. The Rep settled thier differences on it and it did not matter much.
But the Dem could not come to any kind of agreement on it. Till now. Still it is not fair. The Florida Dem voters will not be represented to the same level as the other states by this decision of the Rule Committee. That is misrepresentation, Ras.
Ras, if anyone has played a game here.....and think about it....it is the Democrat party. They have gotten a lot more free media exposure with this than the Rep. It was the brilliant idea of the FL Dem to advance the date. And it was the Dem DNC that could not come to a agreement forcing this prolong period on seating the FL Deligation. All during every major new channel is making nightly comments on it to the country. And two Dem canidates are being asked softball questions about whether FL and MI should be sat. So?
You can point at the State of Florida on this.......but they had little to do with this other than saying sure if you want the date then....we can do it then. If you want the new articles from the time, on the FL DNC request to change the time....I will track em down for you
Anomaly- sorry typo- it means something that is unusual. Give you the best one I have geo politically. In years we have been in a Iraq the Iraqi pipeline has been struck over 500 times. During the near 20 years of conflicts between the Chechen and Russians, the trans Russia pipeline that carries about 80% of the Russian Crude to Europe and eastern Russia was struck 1 time.
Both are soft targets. Both are key infrastructure. Yes, there is a matter of distance. The Iraq pipeline is much nearer to the fight. But the Chechens have even made attacks in Moscow.
So? Why such a difference in strikes numbers?
Tread lightly in figuring this one out. Two people have likely died trying to figure it out. If you want more, I will message it to you.
Agreed Barak is still ahead. But did he draw that mucher closer to the mark with this seating of FL and MI?
Ras, rumor on my side of the street is this. That the remaining super deligates 'owe' the Clinton's big time. Example is Al Gore. Bill made him VP. Many of the others were in office when the Clintons were in the White House, hence they are super deligates now. So they have this past expereince with them. With Barak they don't 'owe' him much more than a handshake. He is so new to DC, that they don't have this expereince with him.
So she has that. But also by seating FL and MI, her populace vote tally increases. I am not sure what it is.....but I bet it is either even or ahead of his.
Also she has the case that her political map of victory states looks better than his with the seating of FL and MI. Those are 2 of the top 10 in size.
She wins the remaining of these state primaries, she can make the case that she was the stronger canidate at the end of this. Eg the last man standing arguement. Er...last woman standing arguement.
So she pulled a little closer in the deligate count, and got added ammo for the super deligate arguement. Not a bad day for HIllary. Another tip away.
Going back to what we were talking of earlier. The fairness of the 1/2 vote. This is likely the 'fairest' thing to do. Other than redo votes in both states. But neither State Constitution has anything in them for such a thing as a 'redo' vote. Even that was going to get challenged here in Florida. jmo
Well they made the DNC rules committee hearing public info
FL......all FL deligates get sat, with a 1/2 vote each. MI......69 and 59 to Hillary, each with a 1/2 vote each.
2118 deligate needed for the win Obama is 66 from the number.
Still is a misrepresentation.....works out to the same voter deligate ratio mentioned earlier in the post. I still see legal trouble coming. Get out your law books kids, we go to court.
Hillary won the war of the 1/2 vote count I think. So she will not appeal it. But suspect some Florida voters will.
Puerto Rico 55 and 8 super deligates with Hillary up by 30 points...... she pulls another 45-50 there. We are neck to neck in diligates count....or worse up to our necks in deligates.....which ever way you wish to look at it.
Phil Dude has attacked GBW on everything from how he got up in the morning to how he went to sleep at night. He has called him a warmonger and much more when we had a congress pass a war bill on this with a large majority vote.
We have had this conversation on a different thread to Ireland's brave stand for rights around the world, Phil. When it could not even help the Brits during WWII. And has since has stayed neutral on every thing from terrorism to the price of tea in China.
So? If Dude want to come and debate with us fine. I am open to it. But expect us to give and well as get.
If you want to come into the debate, fine. But expect us to tell the truth about Ireland...a truth you don't like to read or hear.
That is the problem the Dem got into this time. They did not have the rules straight at the beginning of the primary. Think that a Dem congress will address the issue? We both know the answer there.
Of course not.....to them it just bringing up a bad experience that they hope goes away and they don't face the next time. So though someone may put election reform on the floor......it will die. Why bring up a nightmare? Rather hope that goes away and you don't have to face it again.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
RE: Obama for president......Battle of Island Number Ten!
Ship, I am not sure what VA program he is on......mom mentioned that a while back.....so even still show that they VA has a low cost med program