Fallingman, that was point was on one our media morning political talk shows a few days ago. They did not go as far as he 'hated' jews. They were giving it as a motive for the meeting with Hamas. That he was unhappy that the American Jewish community did not back him when he lost.
I am not sure if they place thier show transcripts online. Will check and see. Get back to you on it.
15 minute to PA polls opening. Image if they tech problems with the machines......:-)...............both sides would be in court so fast........asking for a paper recount...........they would knock Judge Judy over.
Nice to read where we have 'finally begun to talk' the real American issues here. Next it will be Hillary and her love for Penn State and Papa. That has to be at least 250,000 votes in PA!
Well come back Indy. Yes I bet the phone line between Hillary camp and Obama camp with Jimmy C. are hot right now.......the deals that are being cut. Jimmy C is likely on a phone talking to them both. Might go like the following:
JC......Yea it is Jimmy Carter, Senator Obama, Nice to speak with you. Just a moment I have a another call. Please let me take it. Be right back JC...... HIllary Clinton, how nice to hear you. Just a moment. I have another line going. JC......BaraK, I am back. So you want me to hold off on a endorsement? Senator you know I paved the way here with this meeting with Hamas. Now with your election, you can say a former President can talk with with Hamas. Just a moment. JC......Hillary, back now. So you want me to hold off on a endorsement? Senator you know I paved the way here with this meeting with Hams. Now with your election, you can a say a former President tlaked with Hamas. Now you can. Just a moment. Barak....Jimmy it is like this. I already have a little weight at present. This Rev Wrigth thing and B. Ayers thing has me painted as a far lefter. If you endorse me, I get get even more of it. Hold, sure I will hold. Hillary...Jimmy, with my Bosnia comment, your endorsement as much it would be helpful, might also connect me in supporting a terrorist group. Hold, sure I will hold. JC........Barak, come Barak...we all know that you are not far left. Really an endorsement by me.....will bring you to the middle more. You know my politics. I can talk with anyone. Barak..Yea, I know that is the problem. Hold sure. JC........Hillary, Look I got this handled. I can talk with anyone. You know that. Hillary..Yea, I know that is the problem. Hold sure. JC.........So final word Barak is to hold off on a endorsement. OK. Good luck on your run. If you need Hamas to help you out here, do holler. You know where I can reached. Bye. JC........So final word Hillary is to hold on a endorsement? OK Good luck on your run. If you need Hamas to help with some pressure on the Super Deligates....do ask. bye
You know guys, i have been watching this US elections Saga for all this time, that the idea couldnt be helped not to pop into my mind:
Since you guys have spented 3 months already doing not much else than discussing obama and clinton and mccain, and will probably be doing this till election day,
then,
why dont you all SIGN UP for the Barcelona get together on 26-28 September and discuss the aftermath there??
Promise Dude will be there? Indy would love to see him cry, if Obama loses the Dem nomination.
Dude, so you love American politics? or politics in general? While I might find it fascinating....even dramatic and challenging......not sure I would use the word 'love' on it.
I would use that thought on the country, the people here, that basic nature of life. On politics? No.
American politic is lot like a steeple chase....the one with all the hurdles that they have have to leap over. you start out with a lot at the beginning running. They the hurdle and water hazards come. Down goes a horse and rider. Another and another. It get pretty gruesome to watch.....people lives and horses are getting smashed in the process.
That guy that started the race in the first primary......5 month ago....he wanted to win, to make a contribution to his country and to the people both supporting him and not. Thinks that he has solid support. Gets into the race.....and the hurdles comes.....maybe it is financial..... maybe it is an issue....maybe it a relationship with the media...... boom down he goes.
When he goes down....it is not just him. His family, his supporters, those than voted for him in the primaries.....all take the hit to. When you see a negative campaign ad.....think that is 'love' be expressed? Hardly, it is not saying nice things.....is cutting and showing opponet his/her weakness and errors. Doing it publically for millions to see.
The race makes them stronger.....does it make them wiser and more Presidential? A better leader and better person? Or do you have someone in the White House that cleared the hurdles better or has found a lucky course thru them? Some that is so bittered by the negative campaign ads.....by voter blocks not approving them.....that you have problems?
R. Nixon was so enbittered after winning the White House...he could not even send a note to his opponet thanking him for a good contest. He did it in a acceptance speech......but never on paper. He still wanted to bury the opponet.
Some how, I don't call that 'love'. I do call it the American political process.
PA polls open in a hour. For Obama sake...with Roger Moore's late endorsement...I hope the dougnut croud is large this morning.
I noticed that as well. Endorsing at 4am the day of PA primary.....guess he is going for the early morning croud at the dougnut shop.
He is in a tight place. Most of the Dem that have power are moderate and support Hillary. Most the far left like himself...support Obama. He need to those in power to make anything happen. Needs Obama to continue to puch for change.
The big guy is caught in a rock and hard place. So he make his endorsement when it will least hurt him......4am in the morning
They shot down a U-2, a plane made prior to stealth technology. The U-2 was a big glider with a jet engine. Then, they could not catch the SR-71,.....and today cannot see the F-117, the B-2, the UCAV and the F-22............sometimes Mr. Putin has to look into the sky and wonder what is above his head. And Iran's Pres. A.........well........Pres. A. has to know that something is above his head.
Dude, Those were Russian radars in Iraq, in N. Korea, and other places. Stealth penetratd them all. Sometime it needs some help to it ........but consistently it has been done. Go Stealth Go
And that little info on Hillary as a VP canidadate for McCain. Andy Jackson did it 1828. He took a VP canidadate from the opposition party from the 1824 race. Ain't American politics strange?
Glad to see you onboard Indy. I have been trying to holding high the war mongering, right wingers of the Bushney regime in your absence. But certainly without your classical one line style.
We have a CS Pultizer Prize Political Journalism contest for the three best emoticon that discribe the first Hillary and Barak meeting after one is nominated. Two entries so far. Add one in. Enteries taken until they figure out what to with FL and MI deligates, the undeclared Super Deligates....and likely after the DN Convection as likely one or other will start a new political party to fight on.
I had a vision last night night.:-) Say Obama wins. McCain could offer the Rep VP to Hillary. Yes, he could do exactly that.........talk of the ultimate flip flop if she took it.
LOL...I am going to remind you of a post much earlier after he could not sever with Rev. Wright. That it was going to cost him. He had one chance to sever....choose not to take it. Anything that comes out Rev. Wright mouth now....falls right at his feet. And yes Rev Wright is far left. Obama is the farest left Senator on the hill....his voting record shows that.
If Obama win.....Iran is nearly sure to get nucs. That is one of his problems. He cannot be peace and heavy on national security at the same time. Like trying to play two game of sports at one time. Trying to be a hockie goalie and on a soccer field. Just does not work well.
Russia and Iran started their contracts prior to Bush taking office. Under Clinton. So GWB pushing them together? Nah.......there is another reason this all came together......wish a hint? Ok I will share. Find out what the 'Black Pearl of Russia' is......that is the hint.
You know who else lost a lot of money on Iraq? Beside the Russian.... Good old Europeans did.......France, Germany, and other had major contracts with Sadam.
Why would the Russian lost political face with Iraq? Dude...........Iraq is not even in their sphere of influence after the break up.
But I guess.....since Putin showed President Bush where his yacht would be berthed during the coming Russian Winter Olmpics.....the freeze between the two must be over.....and Russia is going to be stop the nuc contract with Iran? Anyone that believes that, I have some land east of KSC to show them here in Florida.
Beside Dude......no one has to worry about Russia.....they are harmless....detoothed..... defanged.....all they want to do is take Euro for thier crude and become rich billionaires. Gesh, I'm not even sure why we have troops in Europe any more....or why you need to have this EuroArmy.......of course they building new battle tanks and new advanced fighter attack aircaft. So maybe is premature to leave you guys.
Dude, I will tell you something. After the break up of Russia. If we wanted to embarress Russia. We surely could have. When the Russian sub went down....the US was one of the first to offer help. When Aeroflot got into trouble here with routes and such, we tried to keep it flying into the US. We have reprocessed tons of old nuclear materials for Russia. And paid for much of the nuc disarment. Paid for much of the Russian nuc security programs. We let Russia into the Space Program and yes needed them after the Shuttle accident. But could have kept them out and shut the Space Station program down.so if we wanted to embaress Russia or to be less than friendly with then a wounded bear, we could have been. GWB took the high road with Russia in many ways.
What did the US and world get in return get in return? Putin and Pres A shaking hands on nuc deals. Russia playing games with crude prices to the Ukraine. Russian hackers coming into the Baltic states financial institution systems with cyber hacking and theft. Russian weapons contracts to Sadam and Iran.
Tugging the Russian bear's tail is good to do at times. Specially when you can do it with stealth aircraft. And they don't even know you are tugging it. Go Stealth Go....
Still deciding the process of seating deligate to vote on the winner, recording votes and enteries here. If like the present Dem party, will only take 4 or 5 month to know if you place a legal entry.
I have been doing some more thinking on the middle east thing.
Follow a little bit. About 5-6 months ago, GWB Administation signed some heafty mil contract deals with both Isreal and Saudi. Virtually indentical deals. Only difference was that the Isreali got a precision guided bomb that was slightly better than the Suadi.
So now you have 'military parity' on the two sides....at least in the conventional sense. A balance of power in a sense. If Isreal acts as a agressor....to any of the bordering Islamic countries....Saudi can come into the fight. Also Isreal is strong enough to defend itself from any agression of the bordering Islamic countries.
This is what set C.Rice of 'light of peace' possible up. Now she could go in and say....look the nation states here have parity of weapons and have this balance of power.....let us solve the Hamas and Hezbollah problems with thse back door negotiations. She has the nation state buying it.
Only now she makes her public statement.....on seeing 'light on the peace process'. That brings Jimmy out of the woods. From what they have said here in the media. Jimmy is still angry with the American Jewish population for voting against in his last Presidential run. They were then mostly Dem. And voted against him.Accoding to teh media people, he has spoken off the record that he feels that they cost him the election. So he has motive to screw this up....or in his words to meet and make it happen.
We all want middle east peace. Without it the world really does not move ahead.
But say Obama get elected now. The arms deals that brought military parity are done. So he has nothing there to offer. He has one side that will meet with him......Hamas and maybe Hezbollah. But on the other side....now that the deal is to return to 1967 borders....Isreal is not going to talk...or at least if I was Isreal, I would not. Why?
For Isreal to come back to the 1967 borders, means they give up thier security walls, their west back communities, and other lands. The Isreali people got really tired of suceide bomber destroying Israeli buses. When then wall went up, that stopped. Isreal is not gonig to give up land, when it decreases thier security. Isreal gave up Gaza because it actually improved thier security. The IDF did not have to go into Gaza to defend the 22,000 Isreali there. It was a good security move. This one is not. Obama has little to nothing to offer the Isrealis.
Mr. Putin....is signing off on every nuclear development deal that Russian firms and Iran can come up with. So.....yes if you are really for the end of nuclear weapons ....should be calling him all the names that you have used for GWB.
Also GBW administration helped to sponsor with the Suadi, the nuclear free Persian Gulf zone region. Which both the Russian and Iran effectively blocked by signing new contracts on nuclear materials plants and reactors.
There is this. A one point in the War on Terror......when Afghanistan was hot. There was what was called the 'nuclear option'. Don't get it confused with the 'nuclear option' that was in kicked around in Congress over the Dem and Rep legislative process. This was to 'really use' small nuclear devices on those mountian hides in Afghanistan. Some DoD types proposed it. Would have left hot radioactive melted mountains in Afghan for the next 100 years. GWB and Joint Chief rejected the proposal.
With Putin and Pres A. signing at last count 32 nuclear reactor and processing deals for Iran, and Russia supplying 80 ton of enriched uranium (yes the kind that goes boom)to Iran to run a reactor. And with Iran wanting 26 more deals. I would say your position here is hypocritical.
On the one hand you call GWB a 'atomic war dog'.....in reality he ends ours Ploutomiun reactor program and Russia's. Mr. Putin is for 'peace and love'.... as in reality he signs reactor and processing deals with Iran. You don't get it both ways. Specially when the facts are contridict what you say.
Dude really? Mr. Putin and Pres A have have made making a nuclear deals like most would sign a deal to open a new gas station on the street corner.LOL Now with the Islamic Clerics of Iran saying......'Iran needs to be a super power in military technology to defend itself against foreign invaders'.....
If that was really the case. That Iran feared US invasion. Why not sign a bilateral defense agreement with Russia? With that is place, think that the good USA would hit the beaches of Iran? Put some boots on the ground there? With Russia ready to send her nuc at us? or Europe? Not on your life or mine. Military intervention in Iran is dead deal unless you want WWIII.
Russia and Iran are signing every other sort of agreement.......why not this one? Exactly, the issue is not a fear of US invasion......it is Iran's desire is for nuclear material and the processes for them.
Here is what I 'think'.....I am not in the loop to know.
C. Rice had been been working the back door channels to talk with Hamas and Hezbollah....via Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.
The return to 1967 border was one that all the warring countries and the two groups Hamas and Hezbollah had for a number of years, after the war ended. Isreal has rejected it for a number of years as well.
With the 1967 warring countries, now at peace with Isreal. I think C. Rice was trying to get Hamas and Hezbollah to accept the present borders, for additional aid from the west. Reasonable? Abbas Fatah group needs the additional aid....so does the Hamas Gaza group.
Jimmy C. steps into the middle of it. Hamas now see a chance with a possilbe new Dem Administration to get back the lands lost. Reconfirms to the 1967 borders for peace. Also get postions with the warring countries on their lost land. C. Rice initiative effectively scrubbed and underminded.
Also with the Hamas faction now split with Fatah in the west bank and Hamas in the Gaza, she could work individual deals. Secure some agreement with Fatah on the West Bank. That is why Hamas want to reconcile, to keep such from happening.
Isreal not going back to the 1967 borders, Fallingman. Hamas knows that. They have been told that manytimes. But maybe you have heard it differently?
What ever light she saw.......now is back to 1967 positions....and we know how well that has worked for last 40 years....we never hear what these back door channel were opening up. If Washington thinks that it a dead deal, with GWB being more and more a lame duck at this point......no real reason to try again.
Heroic J. Carter returned from the middle east and proclaimed earlier today............ "Hamas is willing to live by Isreal in Peace"
The rest of the message includes, the following:
"if Isreal returns to pre 1967 war borders."
The later is something that Isreal has refused to accept as a condition, since the day after the war end in 1967. J. Carter in his efforts to gain middle east peace, might just have set them back 40 years.
We may never know what C. Rice had on the table after she said, "I see a light in middle east peace negotiations," several weeks prior to J. Carter going to the middle east.
In his triphunant return, J. Carter also said that Hamas kidnappers of the Isreali soldier, will let him write a letter home. These guys are so nice, Jimmy...a letter home! Imagine that. Dang, I am glad we did not have you negotiating for the release of the Hanio Hilton prisoners, they might still be there.
But Jimmy was able to get in a dig at the present Administration and Isreal, saying......'neither will talk with Hamas, a principle party in the middle east peace'. Also that Hamas would seek to reunite with Abbas Fatah party. And Hamas will not have a ceasefire with Isreal.
So doing some fast math on J. Carter meeting with Hamas we have:
Setting back middle east peace by 40 years..............................yes Getting a letter...........................................................................yes Ceasefire....................................................................................no Undermining C. Rice middle east accords.................................likely Gaining peace between Hamas factions.....................................yes Dig at GWB Administration..........................................................yes
Not a bad batting average Jimmy, 4 for 6. If you are playing for the other side.
People have been waiting to see Hillary if and when she would take off the gloves, mitten, and hand warmers. To get out there and . Both sides in PA are running negative campaign ads.
So looks like the dancing has stopped and the has not begun yet.
Anyone try to picture, the first meeting of Barak and Hillary, after a winner has been declared? Best three emoticon to discribe the meeting wins a CS Pulitzer Prize for Political Journalism. Mine are::comfort:
Don't jumb up and down, Dude. Because this might upset your opinion of GWB some, as being a nuclear war monger.
Russia just shut down one of it last three plutonium reactors. The United States has already shut all of ours down. Russia hopefully will soon have the rest shut down.
Meaning? These are what they call, breeder reactor. They will take a enriched isoptope and convert it into plutonium, for the strongest kind of nuclear device known.
Don't get me wrong....both side have enough devices of enriched material and plutonium....to destroy the globe several times.
But it another step in the right direction for nuclear disarmament. And yes, much of this was done under GWB watch. They have worked closely with Russia to shut these reactor down...both in money payments and technical assistance.
If we could only get the reactors in Iran shut down now.......but Mr. Putin and Mr. A....feel those are needed for civilian power uses..... even though Iran has a large crude oil reserve. So does Russia....and Russia could shut thier down.....wonder why Iran cannot?
One last little point. The month prior, they did have shut down of the reactor due to power failure. The world is a little safer place with it being shut down.jmo
Switching to McCain and Obama. You better becareful with the McCain coments. Obama just said he would be a 'better President than GWB"
:-)
They are trying to bring civility back into the campaign, Dude. This is how it done in Senate. They berate and poiint fingers....till they see peole getting hurt.
Then they say nice things about each other to make them feel better. Hillary compliments Barac. Barac now compliments McCain. Is McCain turn next to compliment Hillary.
Their supporters get the message that it time to lay off some. Give breathing room to let them figure things out some. The supporters can pressure a canidadate into all sort of bad positions. Both Hillary and Barak are saying easy off some now......trying to reunite things in the Dem party before the PA primary. They don't don't want fist fights at the polling places.
You know all the numbors you are refering to are really interesting and the horrible amount shows that there is a need for a begining some where if that ever should be wished from americans of course.
After ending of the second world war there were millions of guns all over Europe as well and when the government decided to ask people coming and delevering their guns most people did it and it did not take that long time any way.
After the second world war was over and the matter of japaneese occupation in some parts of China was over they deleivered their guns back as well in China and beleive me TT.....if they did it in China they can do it in USA as well. It seems like you dont have confident in your own country,s superiour tecnology have you?
It is easier than you say it is and these numbers are not that difficult to mannage any way. It should be in every city and every place else and it will take some mounths then finish I asure you.
I know americans dont like to do that and they see that Gun thing as a part of their rights and so on but I still beleive this right is a reason of creating violence all over your country because no matter how responsible a person is , it is impossible to keep those guns safe enough any way and beside any human beings can go nuts from one day to another as it has happend tousands of times in America I bet!
If that giving guns back was wished by americans then beleive me man.....there would be tens of tousands of people whom with pride would go from door to door and collected those weapons and the challenge would be easier to manange than you describe.
At least.....the matter of collecting guns is not stopped because it is impossible. just imagine before the election and after the election.....all those differneces even a bout finding out whom is thinking how and why and controlling the flow of money in all over the country and all over the world as well and controlling internet and you name it they made things possible no body thought would be possible at all1 This is just an example TT! there was a need for more surviolence and people went along with that some how and then Viola! this huge country came under control and the rest of us as well and by that we all saw nothing in impossible any way!
None of those countries have the 2nd in thier organization documents or Constitution. They can pass the legal and there is nothing to challenge it. Here there is.
Also.....those are new guns that I mention. What gov't agency will reimburse the dealers for them? And the reimbursement of owned guns? You likely are pushing over a billion in reimbursements.
Just will not happen.
If Barak and the far left want to finght this battle have at it. I like to fight battles where I can see a win my life time. Occassionally, one that go a couple of generations. But the kind of time, legal costs, and the number of angery US citizens you will make......
When you get over here after Obama wins, you can start a petition drive to have placed on the 2012 general election. Or get the 2nd changed. It takes 2/3rd to do that. Not a simple majority.
No body can guarantee any Safty meajors to decide oak....those whom bying guns are responsible and all that and as a matter of very fact.........many criminal minded individulas in your country having a lot guns at their home ! Totaly "legal" guns and all those cna be used in horrible ways and has been uses as well.
Specially amount of guns in "Bittered" places in USA is alarming and Barack really hit bulls eye telling so!
I wish for you country this madness a bout guns ends one day and by that I hope there will not be necassary at all for having all those guns.
I almost Swear Police officers will ave much easier with taking care of their jobs as well and they will not have to look like Starwars troops when they chase criminals and knwoing that criminals and even a So called "responsible" gun owner whom has gone nuts are probabely better armed than the officers are!
Dude do you have an idea of the number of legal and illegal weapons that there are in this country?
Follow for a moment. Police in major cities will have 'gun turn ins days'...sometime for money and sometime for free.......they will get anywhere from couple of 100...to several 1000. Most cities have 1 or 2 of these a year. 40 major cities in the country. Do some math. in good turn in year.....40x 3000x 2=240,000 gun turn ins a real rouch estimate
Go to a normal gun show here. You will usually see 10000 for sale. Legal weapons to be sold. On any weekend...across the country...maybe a 200 gun shows. Do some math.
10000 x 200 = 20,000,000 legal weapons for sale each weekend again a rough estimate
That is just gun shows, not talking license dealers, private dealers, walmarts, shooting clubs, hunting stores, mil dealers, online sales, and direct factory sales. Of which there is likely around 100,000 or more outlets to buy weapons legally. If each has a inventory of 200 guns, The math is:
200 x 100000= 20,000,000 legal weapons for sale each day of business again a rough estimate
That is just the weapons in the marketplace...not counting the millions of legally purchased already owned.
If you collected just this one years legal on marketplace weapon at the 240,000 turn in estimate.......it would take 166 years to collect them.
40,000,000 -:- 240,000= 166.6 years
Getting an idea of what you ask in this?
Please don't say to us, things start with one small step.
These kinds of annual legal sales have been going on since the end of WWII. If we lived in a perfect society, we would not need or use them. we don't...we live in a society where there is daily gun related violence.
I for one am not going to say to a small business owner, he cannot protect himself. Not going to say to a woman that leaves work late at night, she cannot carry one. Not going to say to a hunter that feeds his family with one, he cannot have them. Specially since that 2nd says that all are have the right to own them.
If they cannot teach responsible gun use in the big cities......well.....they can try to enact there own laws on it. DC did and it got struck down in a Supreme Court ruling a few months ago. Maybe the answer is teach responsible gun use......a lot easier than trying to collect the millions of weapons that are in the country.
If Barak wants to change the 2nd? He is in a good position in the Senate to do just that. Let him propose a Constitutional change to do it.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
here!
. Both sides in PA are running negative campaign ads.
has not begun yet.
RE: Obama for President.....The Fifth!
Fallingman, that was point was on one our media morning political talk shows a few days ago. They did not go as far as he 'hated' jews.They were giving it as a motive for the meeting with Hamas. That he was unhappy that the American Jewish community did not back him when he lost.
I am not sure if they place thier show transcripts online. Will check and see. Get back to you on it.