Snuggs09: Wait a minute.....One of you guys said the 2nd Amendment was written to protect the people from the government. Therefore, the government gave the people the RIGHTS.
Now you are saying the government doesn't give RIGHTS.
Which is it
The government does not give rights currently, but if a dictator rises to power, as we have seen many times through history you will see our way of life change dramatically.
I stand by my statement that one of the reasons the founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment and ranked it so high in the document is because of the rights of people to take up arms against a dictatorial regime - it is a check and balance.
DazzleYou: The government does not give rights currently, but if a dictator rises to power, as we have seen many times through history you will see our way of life change dramatically.
I stand by my statement that one of the reasons the founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment and ranked it so high in the document is because of the rights of people to take up arms against a dictatorial regime - it is a check and balance.
lanabyte: That would be my preference. As a matter of fact, if the US government could guarantee (and actually follow through) that they could significantly reduce the amount of guns accessible to criminals by at least 85%, I would seriously consider agreeing with a gun ban. But I don't trust my government or any hot air that comes out of their mouths, and I sure as heck don't trust them to protect me.
A brilliant, truthful post Lanabyte....
If only there where more woman political leaders
Woman think things out and talk....discuss in a civil manner...
The sooner the USA has a female president the better....
Now that is a whole other thread and will have the males up in arms now...
Snuggs09: The Constitution of the United States was adopted in 1787. Our forefathers wrote the Second Amendment to the Constitution to empower homesteaders the right to protect their family from anyone who would cause them harm. The western part of the United States was wild and still being developed. Indians or even other landowners would try to run you off your property. In 1787 there weren’t local police departments, the FBI or any type of law enforcement agency. A family had to have a gun to protect themselves.
It is now 2009 and the Second Amendment still gives citizens of the United States the right to bear arms “in case someone intends to commit robbery in their home or any other type of crime”. People who want a gun in their home, or on their person, use the Second Amendment as an excuse to own a weapon.
We don’t have to worry about the Indians attacking our land anymore. Hunters have guns for the sport of hunting and this is not in question. The National Rifle Association states if you want a gun, you should have it. They are very fond of the Second Amendment.
The Constitution has been amended 27 times. It is time to change it again? Should we amend the Second Amendment so that people do use it as an excuse to own a gun. Laws have been changed requiring people to fill out applications for permission to own a gun but it hasn’t deterred the amount of crime. It’s easy to own a gun these days. If the Second Amended was changed people who owned guns, just for the sake of having it, wouldn’t be protected by the Constitution.
Here’s a thought. If we can’t control who owns guns, maybe we can control the bullets….
Snuggs there is no way they will ever take the guns from criminals,felons are not allowed to have a gun but a lot do have them.Its a situation, where u out law guns, then only the good guys get hurt.Here in Ok we have a shooting range and schooling to complete to be able to pack a gun.
Woman think things out and talk....discuss in a civil manner...
The sooner the USA has a female president the better....
Now that is a whole other thread and will have the males up in arms now...
Great, now how could you do it. You can make laws Till you are blue in the face and that wont stop the criminals from having them. Anyone with a little practice and some small machinry can make a weapon. So how do you stop them? And again only the crimanals would have a weapon.
USThumper: Great, now how could you do it. You can make laws Till you are blue in the face and that wont stop the criminals from having them. Anyone with a little practice and some small machinry can make a weapon. So how do you stop them? And again only the crimanals would have a weapon.
Ok, guess nobody has an answer, so where does that leave us?
My father, and both grandfathers were military. One grandfather worked for the CIA in the early years while the other was in the Navy.
My dad was a marine and served in Vietnam. He was over there while I was born.
Every military man I know, and every police officer I know is for law abiding citizen gun ownership. They are not worried about those of us who carry and obey they law.
woody636: ...Big business and hard to stop but needs to be curtailed if the world is ever to find peace.
As long as Homo-Sapians walk this world, there will not be peace. It's in our genes unfortunately, even Chimps attack one another often without a reason.
If you outlaw all guns and go around collecting and destroying the guns, people will turn to knives and other sharp objects... some of the greatest loss of human life at the hands of other humans occurred long before guns were invented. Armies would slaughter one another on the fields of war, killing many tens of thousands in a single day, without a single shot being fired. So tell me again why guns are such an evil thing?
Take away the guns AND all the sharp objects, and people will resort to throwing STONES at one another... as I say, it's buried deep in our genes. LOL!
Guns are not the problem, people are the problem. Guns in the hands of honest citizens for self protection are an attempt to manage that problem. The problem needs more active management, IMHO.
And for the record I dislike guns (though I have 1) but I recognize the need for honest citizens to have guns! I'm all for gun control, but only to keep guns out of hands of the criminal element living amongst us. Unfortunately, criminals rarely fill out paperwork or applications to buy a gun, they prefer to just steal the gun from someone who legally owns it (while the owner isn't home usually) or buy them on the black market from other criminals who've stolen them.
Criminals do not go thru legal processes to acquire guns! An honest citizen with no criminal history should NOT have to jump thru hoops to legally purchase a gun! That just makes no sense at all.
As a child, my family home was burglarized while we were out seeing a movie one evening... they broke in and stole all the money, gold and diamond rings my mother had, and EVERY GUN my father had in the gun cabinet (4 or 5 rifles and a handgun, as I recall)! We never got those guns back, even after learning who had stolen them. Where they are today I have no idea (the guns, not the thieves who are likely dead by now). But I can attest that it's damned difficult to fall asleep in a bedroom knowing that only hours before a stranger had been in the room ramsacking it, breaking open your piggy banks and emptying them, dumping the contents of all your drawers on the floor and kicking things around... what a mess they'd made! It's VERY difficult to get to sleep after having that experience, this I know.
The point is and remains, there is no good reason to restrict gun ownership by honest citizens... it's the criminal element in our midst who we'd like to keep the guns away from, but can't since the criminals do not fill out legal forms to purchase guns.
So why are we even talking about gun control when you cannot control the guns that are being illegally acquired by criminals to begin with?
It's not the manufacturer's fault for producing the gun, it's not the distributors fault for selling the gun... they aren't making the guns FOR criminals, and they aren't selling the guns TO criminals. That criminals find ways to get the guns illegally, and have preferences for what type of guns they want to acquire, is the criminals fault and no other... put the blame where it belongs.
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
Woman think things out and talk....discuss in a civil manner...
The sooner the USA has a female president the better....
Now that is a whole other thread and will have the males up in arms now...
Now let me think this thru for just a second... a woman President with PMS and a Nuclear Aresenal at her disposal... yeah, that should work well.
I have nothing against that idea, but the rest of the world might just wanna think about it some more. I can see the Taliban in Afganistan and Pakistan having a REALLY BAD DAY around the 1st of the month.
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
USThumper: Great, now how could you do it. You can make laws Till you are blue in the face and that wont stop the criminals from having them. Anyone with a little practice and some small machinry can make a weapon. So how do you stop them? And again only the crimanals would have a weapon.
Im still waiting to see if anyone has a reasonable answer. Id really like to know.
Tamarin: Yours is the most sensible post here and I think each off our own individual opinions on here can get a little heated....
But America has to stop trying to police the world and force it opinions and ideas on the rest of the world...
It needs to stop being NO:1 and say we are your brothers, sisters ....a world working together....
Gun running in the USA provides a great deal of the worlds illegal arms so the laws need changed...
Changing the laws won't stop the gun runners, Tam...this is the point I tried to make earlier. Changing the laws only affects the law-abiding citizens and makes it harder for them to protect themselves against criminals and infringes upon our rights. Criminals aren't affected in any way unless they are caught and the laws already in place are enforced. There's no need for more laws, but rather a need for more people to uphold the laws we already have.
The_Kansan: With all due respect, I submit that if there were no guns then the evening news would be full of reports of stabbings, clubbings, stranglings, etc... A can of soda or bar of soap in the toe of a sock can be a devastatingly effective weapon - Do we ban those next?
Simple fact is that guns are not the problem with today's society. People are the problem with today's society. Perhaps if more time had been spent teaching children right from wrong and how to co-exist peacefully with others and less time tilting at windmills such as gun-control, we'd have no need for this discussion...
You are very Right and you don't know who is trying to come in your house at 3:am & the Laws on the other side of the County!!
druidess6308: Changing the laws won't stop the gun runners, Tam...this is the point I tried to make earlier. Changing the laws only affects the law-abiding citizens and makes it harder for them to protect themselves against criminals and infringes upon our rights. Criminals aren't affected in any way unless they are caught and the laws already in place are enforced. There's no need for more laws, but rather a need for more people to uphold the laws we already have.
Gun running is already illegal.
Whew! I was worried there.
Now they need to do something about scissor running.
USThumper: Great, now how could you do it. You can make laws Till you are blue in the face and that wont stop the criminals from having them. Anyone with a little practice and some small machinry can make a weapon. So how do you stop them? And again only the crimanals would have a weapon.
Thumper, it's because it can't be done. Nobody has succeeded yet, including the countries where they have removed guns from the hands of the law-abiding citizens by outlawing their ownership completely. Some have a hunting exception, I believe, and yet handguns are still carried and used in crimes by the criminals. UK and Australia standing out as prime examples.
If I recall correctly, armed crime jumped up by 300% in Australia when this was done. Do you understand the enormity of a 300% armed/violent crime rate increase? That's huge!
Well, I stopped back in briefly while I could and decided to see how this thread was going. I see that everyone's still on their same point of view, nobody's moving, and it's getting heated. Don't, sadly, have time to read through the remaining pages...but I think maybe some people on here, like Snuggs and Tam, should do some research and learn the facts. They just might find that they're very incorrect in their assumptions.
The_Kansan: With all due respect, I submit that if there were no guns then the evening news would be full of reports of stabbings, clubbings, stranglings, etc... A can of soda or bar of soap in the toe of a sock can be a devastatingly effective weapon - Do we ban those next?
Simple fact is that guns are not the problem with today's society. People are the problem with today's society. Perhaps if more time had been spent teaching children right from wrong and how to co-exist peacefully with others and less time tilting at windmills such as gun-control, we'd have no need for this discussion...
xxdon: You are very Right and you don't know who is trying to come in your house at 3:am & the Laws on the other side of the County!!
Agreed, with both of you. Which is why I'll continue to exercise my right, and why I'll defend it in whatever way I must.
Snuggs09: I've heard that over and over. It's true...people kill people.
If you give people an opportunity, they will take it. What IF people as a collective community don't have the gun to kill.
If I shouldn't eat chocolate but you give me a candy bar, I'm most likely going to eat it. Should I practice self-control or is it better that I don't have something that will cause harm, thus taking away the opportunity to eat it. If you don't have a gun, you can't kill!!!
There are a few Ladies like you who have been Protected all their lives & don't have fear or face Reality!!
Report threads that break rules, are offensive, or contain fighting. Staff may not be aware of the forum abuse, and cannot do anything about it unless you tell us about it. click to report forum abuse »
If one of the comments is offensive, please report the comment instead (there is a link in each comment to report it).
Now you are saying the government doesn't give RIGHTS.
Which is it
The government does not give rights currently, but if a dictator rises to power, as we have seen many times through history you will see our way of life change dramatically.
I stand by my statement that one of the reasons the founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment and ranked it so high in the document is because of the rights of people to take up arms against a dictatorial regime - it is a check and balance.